Be honest, am I going to hell for "my" atheism?

[Whateverist]

You can't go anywhere that doesn't exist. Hell isn't a place. You can't go there. After you're dead you have the added difficulty of effectively doing or going anywhere .. because you're dead. Don't lose any sleep over it.

[robvalue]

Lek: What you call "evidence" is what I call "reality". We have a data sample of one reality, nothing to compare it to.

What would our reality look like if it wasn't the result of an intelligent designer, and how do you know this? Science has amazing answers of how our universe works, all the way back to the big bang, without the needless assumption of any kind of interference from a god. So short of just making stuff up, or a god that acts in ways indistinguishable from him not existing at all, that only leaves a deistic god as a rational conclusion. Anything else is an argument from ignorance as far as I can see. "But maybe..." is an ad-hoc rationalization, and if it's an unfalsifiable statement, it's as useless as any other.

In other words, I think that whatever you see, whatever you experience, you will find a way to see it as credible evidence for what you already believe. I'm in the same reality as you and I see absolutely nothing.

It's the oldest trick in the book to blame me for that. I'm not trying hard enough! It's not my time! I will see it soon! These are all standards by which god cannot fail. In other words, you can "prove" he exists even if he doesn't. That should be troubling? Can you give an example of any criteria, any event, anything at all that you would not consider evidence for god? Is there a way your evaluation can fail? If it cannot, then it's not an evaluation, it's a baseless assumption.

And the "evidence" you see is at best only a demonstration of a generic creator. How do you explain switching in the god of the bible? Whatever argument you make that god = your god can be just as easily made for any other god Is god different for each person, depending on their opinions, depending on what part of the world they are born in? Whatever book they like the most? Whatever story sounds the most appealing?

Or is he just a continually adjusting abstract notion that hides in the gaps and swerves critical analysis?

Sorry for the third degree I don't mean to be aggressive, they are just friendly questions to probe thought and discussion  

He's welcome to show up any time and smash my ignorant face in. God, I give you permission to rip my guts out and makes my eyes explode. Go! Do something man! Why are you leaving your followers with nothing tangible to throw in the face of us thick skulled atheists? Why you are letting us call you a bollock sandwich?

[Tonus]

We'd be better served learning how to hold the "grabbing your ankles" position for long stretches of time.

You're already doing that, except instead of blaming it on God, you just accept those things as part of living in this world.  What's the difference between "grabbing your ankles" as a theist or as an atheist?

Inventing a scenario and then claiming it is real doesn't make it real.  Looking forward to an eternity "serving" a being who is so unpredictable and just downright mean is lunacy.  In any case, the difference between preparing for an afterlife versus not doing so is that I am no longer wasting my time preparing for a future that won't happen, and instead using the time I have productively.

[Brakeman]

The bible says god is a "Jealous" god. God fears that someone will take away something he has.






So who could take something away from a god?
Since hell is punishment because someone took away our affections (God's jealousy), then god is not omnipotent as he feels the hole of missed affection and the jealousy of another god who took the envied affection.
An envious god is not much of an omnipotent god and hell would be nothing but stalker bullying.
Only an asshole god would do such a thing, thankfully he doesn't exist.

[Lek]

While it's my opinion, it's only my opinion. Is it true for me? Yes. Obviously that's not everyone's truth. As for why he mustn't allow for these things to happen? Well, if he want's to be a believable guy, he's going to have to do much, much better than leave the scene of the crime for over 2000 years and leave everyone else to defend him and his nonsense. If he really is the god he's cracked up to be, then he will come forward and eradicate those things which are harmful. If he really is a loving god, then he will come back and back up all the "loving" claims made on his behalf. He will show his face and not try to use his many minions to do his work.

There is only one truth. We don't each have our own truth that's not true for others, only our opinions of the truth. It is true that he did leave the job to his followers to spread the gospel, with his help, by the power of the Holy Spirit working in us. You're setting requirements for who God should be based on your own idea of how he should be. Good has come from suffering in my and others lives. Often it strengthens us and makes us better people. Suffering is painful, but not necessarily evil. Since you're obviously not a christian, do you accept suffering attributed to this world as just part of life? Why is it so hard to accept that God would make it this way?

[FatAndFaithless]

There is only one truth. We don't each have our own truth that's not true for others, only our opinions of the truth.

There's something upon which we agree, though I'd substitute the word 'reality' in for 'truth'.

[Joods]

Good has come from suffering in my and others lives.  Often it strengthens us and makes us better people.  Suffering is painful, but not necessarily evil.  Since you're obviously not a christian, do you accept suffering attributed to this world as just part of life?  Why is it so hard to accept that God would make it this way?

I'm gonna call bullshit on good coming from suffering in people's lives. That's what the typical Xian would respond with because of the immense amount of brainwashing by some sky daddy's minions. I was abused as a child. In two different ways. So please tell me... in what REALITY is suffering as a child, at the hands of an abuser, GOOD?

So tired of hearing this crap of suffering makes you a stronger and better person. No it doesn't. Just because a person survived their suffering, doesn't mean they became stronger as a result. It just means that what they suffered from didn't kill them. You are still the same person you were before the suffering. You just didn't die from it. Maybe you walked away from the experience thinking differently or knowing something you didn't know before, but that doesn't generally make you a stronger or better person. It just changes your perception of things and how you, from that moment on out, will handle things in a different way and what you will or will not allow yourself to be subjected to.

Good call on the fact that I'm not a Xian. People suffer in this world still today. Unnecessarily so. Starvation, earthquakes, tornadoes, hurricanes... all of which impact people who happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. To use the word "attributed" means past tense, means it no longer happens, which isn't the case, as suffering still occurs, in the here and now.

As to your last question: What I'm trying to make a point of saying is that IF there is a sky daddy, given all his "supposed" powers, IF he was a loving god, as many Xians tout he is, then he would HAVE the power to make it so that there wouldn't be any suffering here. Clearly Xians believe god is good so it only goes without saying that if he is really as good and as loving as he is being portrayed, he is fickle and he has favorites. Why is it so hard for you to accept that line of thinking?

[Lek]

I'm gonna call bullshit on good coming from suffering in people's lives. That's what the typical Xian would respond with because of the immense amount of brainwashing by some sky daddy's minions. I was abused as a child. In two different ways. So please tell me... in what REALITY is suffering as a child, at the hands of an abuser, GOOD?

So tired of hearing this crap of suffering makes you a stronger and better person. No it doesn't. Just because a person survived their suffering, doesn't mean they became stronger as a result. It just means that what they suffered from didn't kill them. You are still the same person you were before the suffering. You just didn't die from it. Maybe you walked away from the experience thinking differently or knowing something you didn't know before, but that doesn't generally make you a stronger or better person. It just changes your perception of things and how you, from that moment on out, will handle things in a different way and what you will or will not allow yourself to be subjected to.

Good call on the fact that I'm not a Xian. People suffer in this world still today. Unnecessarily so. Starvation, earthquakes, tornadoes, hurricanes... all of which impact people who happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. To use the word "attributed" means past tense, means it no longer happens, which isn't the case, as suffering still occurs, in the here and now.

As to your last question: What I'm trying to make a point of saying is that IF there is a sky daddy, given all his "supposed" powers, IF he was a loving god, as many Xians tout he is, then he would HAVE the power to make it so that there wouldn't be any suffering here. Clearly Xians believe god is good so it only goes without saying that if he is really as good and as loving as he is being portrayed, he is fickle and he has favorites. Why is it so hard for you to accept that line of thinking?

It's hard to accept your line of thinking because it isn't true. I understand your bitterness about being abused as a child--a terrible thing, still some people go through life unable to deal with childhood abuse, while others do much better. Was it God's fault that you were abused, or the fault of the person or persons who abused you? If God gave us free will, he's not going to step in control every move we make. In order to have free will, we must be able to choose good or evil. How much is our suffering here in the perspective of eternity? I've been to the edge of suicide twice, but I believe as the apostle Paul believed.

Romans 8:18English Standard Version (ESV)
18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us.

And have moved on to better things.

Philippians 3:13-14English Standard Version (ESV)

13 Brothers, I do not consider that I have made it my own. But one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

---

Lek: What you call "evidence" is what I call "reality". We have a data sample of one reality, nothing to compare it to.

What would our reality look like if it wasn't the result of an intelligent designer, and how do you know this? Science has amazing answers of how our universe works, all the way back to the big bang, without the needless assumption of any kind of interference from a god. So short of just making stuff up, or a god that acts in ways indistinguishable from him not existing at all, that only leaves a deistic god as a rational conclusion. Anything else is an argument from ignorance as far as I can see. "But maybe..." is an ad-hoc rationalization, and if it's an unfalsifiable statement, it's as useless as any other.

In other words, I think that whatever you see, whatever you experience, you will find a way to see it as credible evidence for what you already believe. I'm in the same reality as you and I see absolutely nothing.

It's the oldest trick in the book to blame me for that. I'm not trying hard enough! It's not my time! I will see it soon! These are all standards by which god cannot fail. In other words, you can "prove" he exists even if he doesn't. That should be troubling? Can you give an example of any criteria, any event, anything at all that you would not consider evidence for god? Is there a way your evaluation can fail? If it cannot, then it's not an evaluation, it's a baseless assumption.

And the "evidence" you see is at best only a demonstration of a generic creator. How do you explain switching in the god of the bible? Whatever argument you make that god = your god can be just as easily made for any other god Is god different for each person, depending on their opinions, depending on what part of the world they are born in? Whatever book they like the most? Whatever story sounds the most appealing?

Or is he just a continually adjusting abstract notion that hides in the gaps and swerves critical analysis?

Sorry for the third degree I don't mean to be aggressive, they are just friendly questions to probe thought and discussion  

He's welcome to show up any time and smash my ignorant face in. God, I give you permission to rip my guts out and makes my eyes explode. Go! Do something man! Why are you leaving your followers with nothing tangible to throw in the face of us thick skulled atheists? Why you are letting us call you a bollock sandwich?

I can always rely on you to ask the hard questions Rob. I'll agree with you that I would call what I cite as evidence "reality". There are a bunch of living beings running around who are made of dirt. We actually can't explain this back to the big bang. We can observe evidence and theorize how the universe developed and how creatures evolved from lesser developed creatures. We can also theorize how non-living matter evolved into living matter, but it's only an educated guess, since we can't replicate the process. But beyond that we have no idea about whether the elements that compose the universe always existed or that there was once nothing, and something appeared. All this doesn't prove God, but it sure doesn't show that we know how we came about.

During the last couple weeks I spent four days on the Colorado River with not much more to do than take in the world around me and to think and pray. I left on the trip in quite a confused state, but the evidence I encountered overwhelmed me and I left more convinced of the existence of a creator. As for why the christian God? I believe that the case in the bible and tradition is far superior to any other faith that ever existed, but that's not why I accept christianity. I really think that God put it in me and I can't be satisfied with anything else.

[Esquilax]

It's hard to accept your line of thinking because it isn't true.  I understand your bitterness about being abused as a child--a terrible thing, still some people go through life unable to deal with childhood abuse, while others do much better.  Was it God's fault that you were abused, or the fault of the person or persons who abused you?   If God gave us free will, he's not going to step in control every move we make.  In order to have free will, we must be able to choose good or evil.  How much is our suffering here in the perspective of eternity?  I've been to the edge of suicide twice, but I believe as the apostle Paul believed.

So basically, god prioritizes the free will of abusers to abuse people, over the safety of children. And you're okay with this because...?

Would you also put humans under the same standard, where if they fail to prevent a crime they easily could it's morally good, because they've preserved the free will of criminals? Or is it only god that gets this inexplicable, immoral free pass from you?

[Pizza]

Because free will has intrinsic value ..be..be....ca....because God made it that way or something.