Secular reasons for and againt same sex marriage

[Zack]

People can oppose same sex marriage all they want. When that opposition becomes law, it is a violation of the Equal Protection and/or Due Process clauses of the 14th Amendment. Those reasons and objections become moot.

[Ben Davis]

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What are the secular reasons for and against same sex marriage? I outlined some for both sides below to kick start the thread. I put it in the following format: first, I outline the reasons for a particular side, then I follow it with objections to each reason given. Obviously, this is not exhaustive and I tried to keep it brief, so that it serves more as a springboard for further discussion as opposed to a complete case or argument for each of the points. Of course, if you have any other secular reason or argument for or against same sex marriage, then please present it for discussion.

Clearly due to the audience of this forum the tide is bound to turn more in favour of supporting same sex marriage. That being so, I would be interested in hearing what you all consider the best reasons/arguments in support of same sex marriage.


Reasons for opposing same sex marriage

1. The purpose of marriage is to procreate and bring about the next generation. Same sex couples can’t have children.
2. Same sex marriage offers no benefits which would warrant the state recognising and granting it the benefits pertaining to marriage.
3. Legalising same sex marriage would end up undermining the institution of marriage.
4. Children raised by a mother and a father are better adjusted than those raised by same sex parents.
5. Legalising same sex marriage poses a treat to religious liberty.

Objections
Obj 1. If this were so, then why does the state allows people who can’t or do not intent to procreate to marry and grants them all the benefits that pertain to marriage?
Obj 2. They provide about the same benefits that infertile heterosexual couples provide and they also can and do adopt children and in so doing help bring about the next generation.
Obj 3. There is no evidence that allowing same sex marriage would have a negative impact on heterosexual marriage. So it is not clear how it would do that.
Obj 4. Data suggests that there isn’t much of a difference on this regard compared to children raised by same sex couples.
Obj 5. This is something that doesn’t necessarily follows from allowing same sex marriage and it can actually cut both ways. There are religious institutions that would like to legally marry same sex couples but can’t because it isn’t recognised. While there are cases in which religious institutions opposed to same sex marriage are obliged to marry same sex couples, this is not universal and something a proper separation between church and state would prevent.


Reasons for supporting same sex marriage

1. Homosexuality is a normal variant of adult sexuality; these persons possess the same capacity for sustained loving relationships as heterosexuals.
2. Allowing same sex marriage would be beneficial for the economy.
3. Banning same sex marriage deprives a group of people from the physical and psychological health benefits which marriage provides.
4. Given it’s natural state and the benefits it can bring, the state should recognise same sex marriage and grant it the benefits that pertain to it.
5. Same sex marriage between two consenting adults is harmless, having no negative impact upon society.

Objections
Obj 1. That such persons are born with natural homosexual tendencies does not makes it normal. Indeed, many people are born in ways which we consider unnatural or disordered. The complementary nature of the sexes sets the standard for what behaviour should be considered normal as far as sexuality goes. Homosexuality goes against the complementary nature of the sexes so it should be seen as abnormal.
Obj 2. The benefits that same sex couples bring to the economy would not proceed from marriage itself but from their capacity as citizens.
Obj 3. These health benefits are something they can obtain without the need to marry; they are allowed to enjoy a sustained relationship of their own without having the state recognise it.
Obj 4. Given that the benefits are not due to marriage itself but to the individuals and their commitment to a relationship, there is no need for the state to recognise same sex marriage.
Obj 5. Allowing same sex marriage would lead to schools teaching that homosexual relationships are equal to heterosexual ones and it would also force taxpayers to subsidize homosexual relationships despite the fact that they are against it.

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You forgot the most important reason for supporting same sex marriage, that all people should be treated equally. What do you think would be the objections to that point?

[Dolorian]

You forgot the most important reason for supporting same sex marriage, that all people should be treated equally. What do you think would be the objections to that point?

A person who is against same sex marriage would likely retort that people with homosexual tendencies are as equal under the law as heterosexual people in that they are as free to marry someone of the opposite sex as everyone else. So they are not really being discriminated against, they are just not being granted a special right.

[Ben Davis]

A person who is against same sex marriage would likely retort that people with homosexual tendencies are as equal under the law as heterosexual people in that they are as free to marry someone of the opposite sex as everyone else. So they are not really being discriminated against, they are just not being granted a special right.

I saw your other response to the same question after I'd made my post so sorry for making you repeat yourself!

Yeah, that's clearly a dodge and a dishonest one at that. Equality would be being able to marry the person they want to.

[Madness20]

Call me obtuse, i personally think homossexuality might not be the "normal" sexuality one should have or is "designed" to have, as i think homossexuality might indeed be a divergence caused by hormonal/biological and social influence, but to be honest, despites that, i find many homossexuals are averagelly normal people that have all the conditions required to make their own choices and to adopt children in need of parents, and homossexuality is nonetheless harmless to our society.
So i see no reason for not to accept homossexuality as something that is up to people to "choose" nor why it shouldn't be granted the same rights as heterossexual couples. I think in the end, in terms of society "influence" the outcome is certainly positive: you have happier/healthier citizens, you have more children with loving parents, and it's obviously an harmless and useful way for population control.

[Thumpalumpacus]

You forgot the most important reason for supporting same sex marriage, that all people should be treated equally. What do you think would be the objections to that point?

A person who is against same sex marriage would likely retort that people with homosexual tendencies are as equal under the law as heterosexual people in that they are as free to marry someone of the opposite sex as everyone else. So they are not really being discriminated against, they are just not being granted a special right.

I've seen that response many times in these sorts of discussions. The surefire way to disarm it is to point out to the (usually Christian) person saying this is that by that logic, we should require all worshipers to be Muslim. They're free to be religious, but only in a way prescribed by the state.

[Dolorian]

I've seen that response many times in these sorts of discussions. The surefire way to disarm it is to point out to the (usually Christian) person saying this is that by that logic, we should require all worshipers to be Muslim. They're free to be religious, but only in a way prescribed by the state.

To which they would likely reply that "congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion", it would be unconstitutional whereas refusing to recognize same sex marriage is not.

[Anomalocaris]

Reason against homosexual marriage:

A haunting fear that someone somewhere is happy and satisfied in a way you either too repressed to experience, or are not inclined to experience.

Reason for homosexual marriage:

Someone somewhere who can be happy and satisfied in a way you can't should be allowed to be happy and satisfied. Also those petty worms who fear as above deserve to be stomped on.

[Aoi Magi]

Why is it that people believe legalizing homosexual marriages would somehow abolish heterosexual relationships?
With the current population count increasing exponentially, and the apparent failure of birth-control strategies, I am rooting for all homosexual couples to save this world.

[robvalue]

Very interesting OP, good job.

To me, there is no decent argument against same sex marriage. Every argument I have ever heard is clearly based on religion, prejudice or both.

It should be just the same as normal marriage. They can shove all their gay-hate-hiding-behind-bible bullcrap up their arse.