I can't understand muslims

[Mystic]

They say that this practice has been prohibited because its like prostitution.

It would be a case of a hadith replacing a ruling in Quran (the verse about muta in suratal Nisa) then which to me seems illogical.

I think with muta, there is really no excuse to do zina.

[robvalue]

I can't undestand Muslims at all. Unless they speak English.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

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Define "authentic".


Let me get this straight... Belgium is more islamic because, if you have a health problem, you're taken to a hospital? Whereas, in an arabic country you'll be left for dead, huh?
And that is being islamic?
I thought that was being socialist.

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According to the muslims they are more authentic in the way that those hadiths are the most trustable ones..and the others are weaker or even possibly have been made up.

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And yeah i have to admit the medical system example was quiete dumb. But i did understand the message he was trying to give..the positive sides of religion are more applied in our country than the muslim countries. Islam has failed to spread and apply his message correctly..thats what i was trying to say

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That's too funny since all of the hadiths were written centuries after Mohammed supposedly bit the dust.

[robvalue]

What are these Hadith things? Are they like extra downloadable content for the kuran? :p

[Wyrd of Gawd]

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The Prophet and 12 Imams in the Shiite tradition said to throw out any hadith that contradicts the Quran. In this case, lashing is the punishment for zina (which covers fornication and adultery by definition) which was revealed in context of the wife of the Prophet being accused of doing it. So this is clearly one of the innovations in religion that found it's way in hadiths. Plus all the hadiths practically say it was a verse in Quran, and verses missing from the Quran that are still applicable is a problem in itself, because nothing replaced it that is better then it or same as it, therefore it contradicts what Quran says about it's abrogation.

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That whole thing of hadiths and abrogation of the verses make islam hard to understand. There is a verse of the quran that says something like ´there are verses that we have abrogated and replaced with similar verses'. Why would an omnipotent omniscient all and everything knowing god need to make some kind of updates of certain verses? Yes it's true that the punishment for zina are 100 lashes it's clearly written in the quran. And the the missing verse you're talking about refers to the verse for adultery which is not the same as zina. The hadith tells the prophet has stoned people but that that the verse of al rajam (stoning) is missing because a goat or another kind of animal eated that verse hahahah. And it doesn't make sense because a verse in the quran sais ´we brought to you the final version of the book containing no lacks or mistakes'...or something like that. Even scholars, imams and cheiks have different meanings on what is applicable or what has been cancelled or not.

Muhammed claims he received the final message of god and god claims everybody has to follow and copy muhammed. Think deeply about this..it sounds like some kind of mutual egocentrism made up by the prophet

that whole islam doctrine is really confusing and it's going to blow my brain up!

If anyone wants to read some weird shit he should read the hadiths. Only insane people could have written that stuff.

[pocaracas]

What are these Hadith things? Are they like extra downloadable content for the kuran? :p

They seem to be extension packs.... some are incompatible with others, so care must be taken when buying into one of them.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

What are these Hadith things? Are they like extra downloadable content for the kuran? :p

This site has access to the Koran in various translations and four books of hadiths by four writers. http://www.searchtruth.com/searchHadith....h_word=all

You can easy search any of them by simply selecting the book or writer and typing in the key search word. It will then return the passages that contain your search word.

Try it. For example I used the key word "seventy" in the Sahih Bukhari hadiths and got some interesting items.

1. (8) Narrated Abu Said: I heard the Prophet saying, "Indeed, anyone who fasts for one day for Allah's Pleasure, Allah will keep his face away from the (Hell) fire for (a distance covered by a journey of) seventy years." (Book #52, Hadith #93)

2. (30) Narrated Ibn Abbas: Allah's Apostle said, "seventy thousand people of my followers will enter Paradise without accounts, and they are those who do not practice Ar-Ruqya and do not see an evil omen in things, and put their trust in their Lord. (Book #76, Hadith #479)

3. (32) Narrated Abu Huraira : Allah's Apostle said, "The people will sweat so profusely on the Day of Resurrection that their sweat will sink seventy cubits deep into the earth, and it will rise up till it reaches the people's mouths and ears." (Book #76, Hadith #539)

4. (35) Narrated Sahl bin Sa'd: The Prophet said, "seventy-thousand or seven-hundred thousand of my followers (the narrator is in doubt as to the correct number) will enter Paradise holding each other till the first and the last of them enter Paradise at the same time, and their faces will have a glitter like that of the moon at night when it is full." (Book #76, Hadith #551)

This is from the Sunan Abudawud hadiths:

1. (8) Narrated AbuHurayrah: The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: The Jews were split up into seventy-one or seventy-two sects; and the Christians were split up into seventy one or seventy-two sects; and my community will be split up into seventy-three sects. (Book #40, Hadith #4579)

2. (9) Narrated Al-Abbas ibn AbdulMuttalib: I was sitting in al-Batha with a company among whom the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) was sitting, when a cloud passed above them. The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) looked at it and said: What do you call this? They said: Sahab. He said: And muzn? They said: And muzn. He said: And anan? They said: And anan. AbuDawud said: I am not quite confident about the word anan. He asked: Do you know the distance between Heaven and Earth? They replied: We do not know. He then said: The distance between them is seventy-one, seventy-two, or seventy-three years. The heaven which is above it is at a similar distance (going on till he counted seven heavens). Above the seventh heaven there is a sea, the distance between whose surface and bottom is like that between one heaven and the next. Above that there are eight mountain goats the distance between whose hoofs and haunches is like the distance between one heaven and the next. Then Allah, the Blessed and the Exalted, is above that. (Book #40, Hadith #4705)

What was the guy smoking who said the last one?

[robvalue]

OK thanks for the info. I've been meaning to try and read a bit more of it. Yes, that is a lot of insane gibberish there. I'm glad I don't have to argue to people than any of that makes sense.

[TubbyTubby]

OK thanks for the info. I've been meaning to try and read a bit more of it. Yes, that is a lot of insane gibberish there. I'm glad I don't have to argue to people than any of that makes sense.

'A lot'? All of it reads like bollocks to me, I just don't think I would have been cut out for it if I had been born into a muslim family (or christian equally so).

[user]

Hadith in arabic means conversation. I guess the kuraan was formally written by Mohammad but the hadith is some shit he said that others wrote down. And as I mentionned in a previous thread, the reason you find contradicting verses is because Mohammad needed different things at different times, and he wrote verses conveniently depending on what he needed.

Honestly dude you are better off, what is a simple argument during a dating phase becomes major shit in a marriage(if that is what you had in mind, I don't know) And later the kids, what would you raise them as, cause I am very sure this woman would not have let you teach them anything but islam.

Mohammad had sex with a 9 year old, there shouldn't be much else to learn, he had the wisdom of God, and the power to see the future, and infinite intelligence, and the earth swalled his pee and poop(it's not a joke, muslims believe that) and he did not have the common sense, to not shove his junk in a 9 year old. His best friend's daughter of all 9 year olds. And his best friend blessed the marriage, in fact considered it a bargain.