I can't understand muslims

[pocaracas]

Define "authentic".

According to the muslims they are more authentic in the way that those hadiths are the most trustable ones..and the others are weaker or even possibly have been made up.

And those that weren't made up... how did they come about?

[Minimalist]

You know, in the borderline mystic way that xtian know which bible verses are literal and which are symbolic.

They've all got the same line of shit.

[Mystic]

Define "authentic".


Let me get this straight... Belgium is more islamic because, if you have a health problem, you're taken to a hospital? Whereas, in an arabic country you'll be left for dead, huh?
And that is being islamic?
I thought that was being socialist.

According to the muslims they are more authentic in the way that those hadiths are the most trustable ones..and the others are weaker or even possibly have been made up.

And yeah i have to admit the medical system example was quiete dumb. But i did understand the message he was trying to give..the positive sides of religion are more applied in our country than the muslim countries. Islam has failed to spread and apply his message correctly..thats what i was trying to say

The Prophet and 12 Imams in the Shiite tradition said to throw out any hadith that contradicts the Quran. In this case, lashing is the punishment for zina (which covers fornication and adultery by definition) which was revealed in context of the wife of the Prophet being accused of doing it. So this is clearly one of the innovations in religion that found it's way in hadiths. Plus all the hadiths practically say it was a verse in Quran, and verses missing from the Quran that are still applicable is a problem in itself, because nothing replaced it that is better then it or same as it, therefore it contradicts what Quran says about it's abrogation.

[Mister Agenda]

Religion affects people in different ways. This is not all down to her religion, some of it will be down to her personality. The Quran does not prohibit Muslim women marrying a non-Muslim, just prohibits them from marrying a person who commits 'shirk'.

Sounds like atheists and Jews would be the most acceptable in that regard.

[Iloveporc]

According to the muslims they are more authentic in the way that those hadiths are the most trustable ones..and the others are weaker or even possibly have been made up.

And yeah i have to admit the medical system example was quiete dumb. But i did understand the message he was trying to give..the positive sides of religion are more applied in our country than the muslim countries. Islam has failed to spread and apply his message correctly..thats what i was trying to say

The Prophet and 12 Imams in the Shiite tradition said to throw out any hadith that contradicts the Quran. In this case, lashing is the punishment for zina (which covers fornication and adultery by definition) which was revealed in context of the wife of the Prophet being accused of doing it. So this is clearly one of the innovations in religion that found it's way in hadiths. Plus all the hadiths practically say it was a verse in Quran, and verses missing from the Quran that are still applicable is a problem in itself, because nothing replaced it that is better then it or same as it, therefore it contradicts what Quran says about it's abrogation.

That whole thing of hadiths and abrogation of the verses make islam hard to understand. There is a verse of the quran that says something like ´there are verses that we have abrogated and replaced with similar verses'. Why would an omnipotent omniscient all and everything knowing god need to make some kind of updates of certain verses? Yes it's true that the punishment for zina are 100 lashes it's clearly written in the quran. And the the missing verse you're talking about refers to the verse for adultery which is not the same as zina. The hadith tells the prophet has stoned people but that that the verse of al rajam (stoning) is missing because a goat or another kind of animal eated that verse hahahah. And it doesn't make sense because a verse in the quran sais ´we brought to you the final version of the book containing no lacks or mistakes'...or something like that. Even scholars, imams and cheiks have different meanings on what is applicable or what has been cancelled or not.

Muhammed claims he received the final message of god and god claims everybody has to follow and copy muhammed. Think deeply about this..it sounds like some kind of mutual egocentrism made up by the prophet

that whole islam doctrine is really confusing and it's going to blow my brain up!

[Mystic]

And the the missing verse you're talking about refers to the verse for adultery which is not the same as zina.

The word zina covers both adultery and fornication.

[Iloveporc]

And the the missing verse you're talking about refers to the verse for adultery which is not the same as zina.

The word zina covers both adultery and fornication.

Okay thanks..what makes is even more confusing.
The idea of god that demands humans to give a punishment of 100 hits with a whip for zina with conditions like 4 people as witnesses is absurd. Imo it's a man made punishment. Tell me how big is the probability that 1400 years ago indeed a god sent an angel to a guy named muhammed to forward this message and that it ended on paper this way?

If you look at other animals or primates they commit zina everyday and yet have they ever heard of islam? Or there are still tribes living completely isolated from civilizations like us..have they ever heard of islam? I don't think so..and still they have their own rules on zina or reproduction and manage to live peacefully.

What makes islam maybe credible is that it was the last abrahamic religion and has 2 billion followers today that say everywhere that islam is the truth. And like another user posted on this topic that: "religion gives us simple answers to difficult questions". If a giant whip came out of the sky to floggel every single person that commited zina..trust me when i say every single person on this earth would be muslim and faithful. But muslims will reply on this that if god showed himself faith wouldn't be challenging anymore or that sometimes god forbids us something to test us..or they claim thay if god gives a fatal disease to someone it's to test if the person will still keep his faith..that's what i mean with simple answers to some questions. And islam gives us simple answers on the purpose of life too.

---

Give simple answers to difficult questions, to pacify those who cannot handle uncertainty

Right on. One the most true quotes and it could be a perfect definition for religion.

[Mystic]

Shiite Islam has temporary marriage (muta)...it is there for people who don't want to commit to a marriage but to safeguard knowing the father in case the woman becomes pregnant.

There were no birth prevention pills or condoms back then...why allow children to not know their father?

What excuse was there not to either get married or do muta (temporary marriage).

[Iloveporc]

Shiite Islam has temporary marriage (muta)...it is there for people who don't want to commit to a marriage but to safeguard knowing the father in case the woman becomes pregnant.

There were no birth prevention pills or condoms back then...why allow children to not know their father?

What excuse was there not to either get married or do muta (temporary marriage).

Yeaah i've read about muta but all the muslims i know are sunni's. They say that this practice has been prohibited because its like prostitution. Yeah but in case the woman gets pregnant and the man finishes the temporary marriage..it completely contradicts the principle of a normal marriage.

But i didn't understand what are you trying to tell or to ask me with this?

[robvalue]

If God wanted to communicate with us, I'm sure he could do it directly, individually and in a way we couldn't possibly misinterpret. Instead he has chosen about the worst possible way to communicate, literally indistinguishable from people who want to control you making shit up.

Inserting similar verses my atheist ass. It's all utter horse shit. Yeah God says, "Go for it. I may have written that bit perfectly, but just replace it with whatever. I'm busy."

This faith bollocks is the biggest con of the lot. You have to believe what I say because there is no evidence. There's two other words that fit that scenario: gullibility, or coercion, depending on the threat level helping you "decide".