Indonesia to execute six drug offenders

[abaris]

I'm sorry if the subject makes you uncomfortable.

Well, it's not exactly a funny subject.

[Autumnlicious]

No apology, just complete assumption I see.

I'm not allowed to block mods, so you can just expect me to ignore you.

How very rude.

You're welcome.

It looks to me, then, that you're actually in favor of letting the public discuss this.

If by resignation and fatalism (a distinctly negative-or-neutral attitude) means "in favor" (which most reasonable people wouldn't consider it so), then you may interpret it as such.

Yes, because that equates to a GULag system, amirite? You cite two examples to derogate a system of about 3150 county court systems, 50 state systems with multiple courts in them, about 100 federal district courts, an appellate system, and the Supreme Court. Surely if the court system was unreliable in enforcing our rights -- many of which convicted felons often lose as a result of their crimes -- if the system was that unreliable, you'd have a larger sample, or a more substantive reply than "Yeah, but what about this?", which is what posting your two links amounts to.

Non sequitor. I've presented two recent examples of an inconsistent and damaged criminal justice system, and your response is "It's not significant enough"

Blow Jesus Magical Thinking out your ass.

I've presented evidence enough of showing that the criminal justice system corrects itself slowly and at significant cost to wrongfully convicted citizens.

There are also miscarriages of justice towards capital punishment (as per the Innocence Project).

But yes, repeat after me (and shove that overly fat head of yours in the ground) "There is nothing wrong with our legal system. Nothing wrong."

Maybe you think prison ought to be a vacation home, I don't know. You've yet to put forth any positive ideas, instead enjoy sniping in this thread. Perhaps you have something to actually add to the conversation.

The fact you think the choice is between the current system and "Club Fed" is more telling.

I'll repeat it "Blow Jesus magical thinking out your ass".

How would you go about replacing the death penalty? Be specific.

Imprisonment, prison reform, increased investment in the judicial system to scale up.

Much of perverse economic incentives comes out of being far too cheap/stingy. Cases take months to even go to trial, so much so that it is more beneficial for someone wrongfully imprisoned to take a plea bargain for a crime they did not commit rather than languish in jail until their court date.

My response to this is perversely mathematical. If you have a system where murderers are let out, like in the UK, then if the reoffend murder rate is higher than the innocently executed rate, then you save innocent lives by execution. Not easy to accurately get these numbers I know, and I haven't looked in detail to see how that would work out. That would be interesting.

It's fine to call me a heartless bastard, by the way. I can take it.

You're not perversely mathematical. You're perversely ignorant and encouraging of miscarriages of justice.

This is why you're an idiot and I called you out as one. You propose ideas without considering the consequences, whine when mocked on it then immediately lobby to effectively execute innocents in your obsession with killing murderers.

You've as much concept of "Justice" as a Soviet drumhead trial.

I was trying to save lives with maths. (edited)

It is my opinion you deserve the fruits of your beliefs. He who lives by the sword, ought to die by it.

Say the reoffend rate was 40% and the innocent execution rate was 1%. What would you do? Assuming life imprisonment for everyone was not an option. Which it should be, I agree.

Why is the reoffend rate that high? Hm?

Idiot. For all you know, the rate is high by your own system.

Definitely similar to the the type of fool who'd throw away his computer when it gets infected by a virus because he was too stupid to run an anti-virus, an adblocker and visit reputable sites. Hell, he wouldn't even to be able to conceive of removing said virus. Nope, just trash it and be done with it.

When did I say I was comfortable with innocents being executed? I'm accepting it's an inescapable part of the death penalty.

That's being comfortable with it, you moron.

And yes, I admitted I haven't looked at all. What's the problem? I may have no point at all. I'm sorry if the subject makes you uncomfortable.

And I'm sorry you're incapable of understanding second and third order effects.

As far as I'm concerned, you've as much an idea of systems engineering as a dog has of Newtonian mechanics.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Sorry, Moros, I looked all through your post for the positive contribution that I requested, but all I found were mischaraterization, strawman fallacy in at least one point, false imputation, platitudes about imprisonment and reform, and a broadly generalized case of rectal-cranial inversion.

I await a substantive reply from you that doesn't rely on condescension. Something tells me I'll be waiting a while.

[rexbeccarox]

The DP conversation is a really sad one. I've seen it make good buddies hate each other.

I'm almost fully against it, with the exceptions being only people who confess to murder and people who want to die. It's estimated that 4% of prisoners on death row in the US are innocent. Even if the number were 0.0000000000000001%, it would be too many.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I don't even trust confessions, Rexy. There's a number of convictions that have been overturned based on the fact that the confessions were obtained illegally.

[rexbeccarox]

Yeah. I should have termed it "legally confess" but I'm not sure I even understand what that means anymore, so thank you for helping me narrow it down to one: only people who actually want the DP should get it.

[c172]

I want the DP, but not for its own sake. I want the right people removed from us. And not for freaking drugs. I'd boycott Indonesia, but I don't even know where half my consumables are from.

[Autumnlicious]

Sorry, Moros, I looked all through your post for the positive contribution that I requested, but all I found were mischaraterization, strawman fallacy in at least one point, false imputation,

---

platitudes about imprisonment and reform, and a broadly generalized case of rectal-cranial inversion.

I await a substantive reply from you that doesn't rely on condescension. Something tells me I'll be waiting a while.

---

Would you like some cheese with your whine?

[Thumpalumpacus]

*yawn*

You can't even bandy insults with any skill. Wake me up when you have something useful to say.

[rexbeccarox]

Ok. Now you guys are just flaming each other.

Back to the topic at hand, please