This is so great!
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it" ~ Aristotle
A Conscious Universe
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This is so great!
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it" ~ Aristotle
RE: A Conscious Universe
February 1, 2015 at 10:33 am
(This post was last modified: February 1, 2015 at 10:33 am by Alex K.)
I don't know how it could possibly contribute to the philosophical discussion at hand in a meaningful way, but photons are currently not known to be spatially extensive - they are, like electrons, mathematically described as point particles which are subject to quantum mechanical uncertainty, and no measurement so far falsifies this assumption. If string theory is correct, we'd know more about their shape, as it would be a 1-dimensional string instead of a point particle, but that's pure speculation.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
(February 1, 2015 at 10:33 am)Alex K Wrote: I don't know how it could possibly contribute to the philosophical discussion at hand in a meaningful way, but photons are currently not known to be spatially extensive - they are, like electrons, mathematically described as point particles which are subject to quantum mechanical uncertainty, and no measurement so far falsifies this assumption. If string theory is correct, we'd know more about their shape, as it would be a 1-dimensional string instead of a point particle, but that's pure speculation. Science is pointing away from a consciousness as a requirement as a cause no matter what we currently don't know about QM. There simply is no need to fill in the gap with a giant cognition. RE: A Conscious Universe
February 1, 2015 at 10:39 am
(This post was last modified: February 1, 2015 at 10:45 am by The Grand Nudger.)
Our model suggests that you'd feel them "pushing back" at half a fermi (or somesuch, less than 1 but more than zero)....iirc who was the resident physics nut in the thread....for confirmation?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
(February 1, 2015 at 10:38 am)Brian37 Wrote:(February 1, 2015 at 10:33 am)Alex K Wrote: I don't know how it could possibly contribute to the philosophical discussion at hand in a meaningful way, but photons are currently not known to be spatially extensive - they are, like electrons, mathematically described as point particles which are subject to quantum mechanical uncertainty, and no measurement so far falsifies this assumption. If string theory is correct, we'd know more about their shape, as it would be a 1-dimensional string instead of a point particle, but that's pure speculation. That's right. In the first decades of QM some people thought consciousness was the thing causing wave functions to collapse, spawning all kinds of woo on the sidelines, but this view has been largely discarded now as an artifact of the initial confusion about the theory.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
RE: A Conscious Universe
February 1, 2015 at 10:43 am
(This post was last modified: February 1, 2015 at 10:46 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(February 1, 2015 at 10:30 am)bennyboy Wrote:Try researching the compton scattering effect(February 1, 2015 at 10:29 am)Rhythm Wrote: Will the explanation dissuade you from your assumption any more competently than an explanation of Mario's size existence? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compton_scattering -or- "Photon Antibunching in Resonance Fluorescence" (trying to find a nonsub download for you) Quote:Will a repetition of the difference between information and the arbitrary medium which carries it dissuade you from yours?No, because your dividing line won't be made any more true through repetition. You'll need a better case than "I disagree" entirely. You think it;s something "else" but I can not only point to my explanation...but also touch it (and so can you).
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
I'm no Pastafarian, but still I keep reading this thread title as "A Couscous Universe."
(February 1, 2015 at 10:41 am)Alex K Wrote:(February 1, 2015 at 10:38 am)Brian37 Wrote: Science is pointing away from a consciousness as a requirement as a cause no matter what we currently don't know about QM. It was never taken seriously at all. The woo was popularized by si fi shows like Star Trek. Even today some still fall for si fi crap. NASA put out an article about the "warp drive" and everyone went ape shit over it and failed to read the entire thing. "Plausible" and "likely" are the part they missed, it was only mathematical on paper. The article also said to do that it would take all the energy in the universe. Si fi woo is as bad as religious woo. RE: A Conscious Universe
February 1, 2015 at 2:23 pm
(This post was last modified: February 1, 2015 at 2:25 pm by IATIA.)
(February 1, 2015 at 2:15 pm)Brian37 Wrote: The article also said to do that it would take all the energy in the universe.Way behind the times. And if you interested in the math behind it:
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion. -- Superintendent Chalmers Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things. -- Ned Flanders Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral. -- The Rev Lovejoy (January 31, 2015 at 11:52 pm)bennyboy Wrote:Me doing the math isn't what make the ball fly. The ball flies because the bat interacts with the ball. Just because we can use math to calculate how the ball will fly, it doesn't mean the math is making the ball fly. Just look how you describe the universe. Your explanations are all physical. Yet you want to say the deeper layer is information because the limitation of your senses. It's not justified but is an argument from ignorance.(January 31, 2015 at 11:08 pm)Surgenator Wrote:That's a lot of questions. Let me answer that, in general, I'd describe most things as you would: momentum is the product of mass and velocity, the speed of light is 300,000km/s., etc. In fact, in all observable cases of physical interactions, I'd accept current explanations: bat has momentum a, ball has momentum b, you do the math, and ball flies toward the outfield. Quote:The main differences occur at philosophical boundaries. What, for example, is a photon: a wave, a particle, both, neither? As an idea, ambiguity is fine. I would not, however, accept that an ambiguous "particle" is real in a physical sense, because there's no way to map it to the dimension of space which is the framework in which physical monism works.You can map a particle to a specific spacetime. Just because our instruments aren't not capable of measurements doesn't mean the position is ambigious. It mean it is ambigious to us. Here is a video demonstating the pilot-wave intepertation of QM that desolves the ambiguity. Quote:Another example is the mind. In a physical monism, subjective mind is a (very strange) "bonus" to processes which should be able to tick along just fine without it. And before everyone starts shouting about brain chemistry, consider this: how do we even know what physical systems have the capacity to experience subjectively? We don't.I frankly do not see what the problem is. Your brain takes in some sensory information and assosiates it with a memory. The consciousness (a byproduct of the brain) has access to these memories. So whenever you get the a similiar sensory data, the already existing memory makes you feel like you know what it is. This is subjective, because this is only your memory not anyones else. Quote:It seems to me much simpler to explain all the universe in terms of an interaction of ideas, than to explain mind in terms of physical elements. This is because we already experience everything we know as a collection of experiences and ideas anyway. We can generate ideas, I do it all the time. These ideas do not manifest in reality unless I get up and impliment them. If ideas is what this reality is made out of, then there shouldn't be a difference between generating ideas in my head vs ideas in reality. Consider the situation. I tell you "here are 10 balls that our now yours." You do not see any balls. You say, "there are no here." I say, "they're clearly there, use your imagination." You humor me and say, "those balls have a nice blueish color." I look at you ad say, "the balls are red, not blue." In physicalism, my mind cannot create physical objects. So me imagining physical objects have no affect on reality. In idealism, my mind can create ideas. So I can create the idea of balls using my imagination. You couldn't see my created balls because of ...... umm ..... what is preventing you from seeing them? |
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