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RE: The argument of "chance"
February 23, 2015 at 8:40 am
(February 21, 2015 at 12:55 am)xr34p3rx Wrote: This argument is a bit confusing to me at the moment. Could someone be kind enough to explain it a bit or give a video or link to an article breaking it down.
There is an even 'chance' I might punch anyone who spouts unjustifiable odds as an expression of how unlikely the universe is at me.
MM
"The greatest deception men suffer is from their own opinions" - Leonardo da Vinci
"I think I use the term “radical” rather loosely, just for emphasis. If you describe yourself as “atheist,” some people will say, “Don’t you mean ‘agnostic’?” I have to reply that I really do mean atheist, I really do not believe that there is a god; in fact, I am convinced that there is not a god (a subtle difference). I see not a shred of evidence to suggest that there is one ... etc., etc. It’s easier to say that I am a radical atheist, just to signal that I really mean it, have thought about it a great deal, and that it’s an opinion I hold seriously." - Douglas Adams (and I echo the sentiment)
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RE: The argument of "chance"
February 23, 2015 at 8:52 am
It's another one of the arguments that looks at things backwards. It's treating it as if humans just got flung onto a random planet and it just happened to have everything just right for us. Of course what actually happened is that we evolved to fit our environment. If the conditions were different, we would be different, or possibly not here at all.
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RE: The argument of "chance"
February 23, 2015 at 11:24 am
(February 23, 2015 at 8:15 am)Wiggy Wrote: The difference is that Islamic terrorists think they are dying for the truth. The authors who wrote the new testament died for their eyewitness testimony. What I was trying to say is that no one dies for a lie if they know its a lie. This is strong evidence for the bible and fulfilled prophecies by Jesus from the old testament. You can twist your testicles into a pretzel to explain this away.
Considering that we still don't know who wrote the gospels, that they're anonymously authored, you certainly don't know that they were eyewitnesses. In fact, if you actually, you know, read the gospels, none of the authors even make the claim that they were eyewitnesses, so you're kinda just factually wrong here. My testicles remain un-pretzeled.
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee
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RE: The argument of "chance"
February 23, 2015 at 11:45 am
Wiggy, my advice would be to read the bible before talking to people who have already read it.
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RE: The argument of "chance"
February 23, 2015 at 12:16 pm
(February 22, 2015 at 2:16 am)bennyboy Wrote: And where does this eternal creator exist?
God-land.
Quote: In what time does this eternal creator have thoughts like, "Hmmmm, I'm bored. Let's make a universe today."
God-time.
Hmmm, this theology stuff isn't too hard.
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RE: The argument of "chance"
February 23, 2015 at 3:22 pm
(February 23, 2015 at 12:16 pm)JesusHChrist Wrote: Hmmm, this theology stuff isn't too hard.
Just keep repeating "Jesus is the answer" and you might as well get a degree.
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RE: The argument of "chance"
February 23, 2015 at 4:18 pm
(February 23, 2015 at 11:24 am)Esquilax Wrote: (February 23, 2015 at 8:15 am)Wiggy Wrote: The difference is that Islamic terrorists think they are dying for the truth. The authors who wrote the new testament died for their eyewitness testimony. What I was trying to say is that no one dies for a lie if they know its a lie. This is strong evidence for the bible and fulfilled prophecies by Jesus from the old testament. You can twist your testicles into a pretzel to explain this away.
Considering that we still don't know who wrote the gospels, that they're anonymously authored, you certainly don't know that they were eyewitnesses. In fact, if you actually, you know, read the gospels, none of the authors even make the claim that they were eyewitnesses, so you're kinda just factually wrong here. My testicles remain un-pretzeled. Anecdotal evidence is to be taken seriously when it's in an ancient text, Esquilax. It's like wine keeps getting better with age. 
It is very important not to mistake hemlock for parsley, but to believe or not believe in God is not important at all. - Denis Diderot
We are the United States of Amnesia, we learn nothing because we remember nothing. - Gore Vidal
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RE: The argument of "chance"
February 23, 2015 at 5:26 pm
(This post was last modified: February 23, 2015 at 6:21 pm by Thumpalumpacus.)
(February 21, 2015 at 12:55 am)xr34p3rx Wrote: This argument is a bit confusing to me at the moment. Could someone be kind enough to explain it a bit or give a video or link to an article breaking it down.
The numbers they get as results are bunk because they pretend as if there weren't trillions of molecules simultaneously reacting. They pretend that it was one molecule continuously morphing directly from hydrogen dioxide to unicellular life to Albert Einstein teaching at Princeton.
(February 21, 2015 at 1:16 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: (February 21, 2015 at 2:43 am)robvalue Wrote: There is no reason to think the universe could have been anything other than what it is.
Careful, Rob. Starting with that premise leads to God.
Nah.
(February 21, 2015 at 1:16 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: (February 21, 2015 at 2:43 am)robvalue Wrote: Basically, there is nothing in mathematics that represents "God".
True. Because God is why mathematics exists in the first place.
lol, now we know your god is evil -- he invented calculus.
Oh, wait, that was Newton and Spinoza.
(February 21, 2015 at 9:01 pm)Wiggy Wrote: 30% of the world are christian who believe Jesus is the son of God and died on a cross for our sins and rose again. All books in the bible agree to thesame thing despite being written by different authors at diff times. Old testament Iis full of fulfilled prophecies about Jesus. All OT prophecies were fulfilled thats y they were true prophets and their word will live forever.
On the other hand evilutions are always changing their stories about fossils. Thats why its crap. I would suggest subscibing to creation.com. it completely and utterly destroys evolution scientifically.
You apparently don't get the concept of conforming one's information to comport with reality.
That's okay, you'll grow up one day. Well, hopefully.
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RE: The argument of "chance"
February 23, 2015 at 6:25 pm
(February 23, 2015 at 8:15 am)Wiggy Wrote: The difference is that Islamic terrorists think they are dying for the truth. The authors who wrote the new testament died for their eyewitness testimony.
So, even though the vast majority of historians in the world do not know who wrote most of the NT, you do, and you even know what happened to them after?
You should publish your findings so you can clear a lot of things up.
Quote:What I was trying to say is that no one dies for a lie if they know its a lie. This is strong evidence for the bible and fulfilled prophecies by Jesus from the old testament. You can twist your testicles into a pretzel to explain this away.
"I hear that claim a lot, but having read every Christian source from the first five hundred years of Christianity, I’d like him [William Lane Craig] to tell us what the piece of evidence is that the disciples died for their belief in the resurrection." Bart Ehrman.
As far as the so called prophecies go, they are either self fulfilled, misinterpretations, about a current (to the OT) event, or exaggeration.
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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RE: The argument of "chance"
February 23, 2015 at 6:25 pm
(This post was last modified: February 23, 2015 at 6:33 pm by Thumpalumpacus.)
(February 21, 2015 at 9:41 pm)Wiggy Wrote: robvalue Wrote: In other words, they copied out the back of the book and still got it wrong.
Thats a big statement because all of those who wrote the new testament were killed for their testimony. No one dies for a fabricated lie
Five million Germans died defending the Third Reich. Do you think Hitler's assertions about Jews, herrenvolk and untermenschen were true?
By your logic, you'd have to do so.
(February 22, 2015 at 2:49 am)rexbeccarox Wrote: Anyone gonna answer this? Wiggy?
(February 21, 2015 at 9:13 pm)rexbeccarox Wrote: Not so simple; now you have to answer the question: where did that creator come from?
You really should change your title to "Feet to the Fire holder". I love the way you are dogged in your questions.
(February 22, 2015 at 12:37 pm)Esquilax Wrote: (February 22, 2015 at 8:57 am)Tonus Wrote: Yep. Special exemption for the prime mover. God was always there, which means it literally took him forever to create the universe.
Yeah, he floated around in a timeless eternity until suddenly, he just decides that it's boring, so poof, reality. But here's the problem: if god is eternal then there would have been an eternity of time for him to begin creating the universe, therefore he never could have reached the time that it happened! /theist 
You gotta love it when the Kalam argument refutes itself.
(February 23, 2015 at 8:52 am)robvalue Wrote: It's another one of the arguments that looks at things backwards. It's treating it as if humans just got flung onto a random planet and it just happened to have everything just right for us. Of course what actually happened is that we evolved to fit our environment. If the conditions were different, we would be different, or possibly not here at all.
That's right. The puddle is eternally surprised that the pothole fits him exactly.
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