If I were an Atheist

[Dystopia]

True but there are lots of things which only have circumstantial evidence in their favor, theism is a belief not a fact.

As a law student what I learned is that circumstantial evidence isn't counted because it frequently leads to unfair conviction of the innocent

True. But why are there any laws of physics never mind specific ones that allowed for the existence of planets and life?

You tell us Einstein

True. But much of it also appears to be designed and engineered to produce specific results.

Everything can appear to be designed and engineered to produce specific results depending on who's observing

The problem with the bashing theism technique of justifying atheism is it only inspires the base, those who are already atheists or those who hate all religion. That is why atheism hasn't grown significantly in numbers in many years. A new approach would be to admit theism and atheism are beliefs, opinions about how our existence came about. Since no one knows for sure and no evidence rules out either theory there is no grounds to mock and ridicule one belief over the other.

I'm not concerned with sensitivities. Your belief that we shouldn't offend or bash other people's ideas is what promotes the creation of hate speech laws that jail anyone who dares to criticize other people's sensitivities. Grow up. Atheists are not concerned with theists' feelings because we already know people will start not believing progressively - it's already happening.

[robvalue]

If you use an irrational belief as your identity, and take insults against an undemonstrated entity personally, then you really need to clean up your own house before busting into mine with your foreskins and your cross and your table cloths and dribbly books and over starched pyjamas.

If ideas and beliefs are not open to criticism and debate, that is totalitarianism.

[pocaracas]

Drew... at best, AT BEST, you get us to deism. And that is just so a human mind can accommodate some anthropomorphic universe.
So what if my mind cannot grasp just how things came into being?

[robvalue]

Atheism is not a belief.

And I couldn't care less what other people believe, as long as it's not hurting anyone else.

This is currently far, far from the case. And until this is addressed, yes I'll continue to smash religion.

[Drew_2013]

Dystopia,

True but there are lots of things which only have circumstantial evidence in their favor, theism is a belief not a fact.
As a law student what I learned is that circumstantial evidence isn't counted because it frequently leads to unfair conviction of the innocent

Must be your first year. Many criminal cases where the level of evidence is beyond a reasonable doubt are tried on the basis of circumstantial evidence and have won convictions. People have been convicted of murder without a body in some cases. But the circumstantial evidence has to be very convincing. This matter isn't a criminal case the level of evidence is a mere preponderance of evidence meaning just more in favor of a proposition then not.

True. But why are there any laws of physics never mind specific ones that allowed for the existence of planets and life?
You tell us Einstein

Because it was intentionally designed by a Creator.

Your belief that we shouldn't offend or bash other people's ideas is what promotes the creation of hate speech laws that jail anyone who dares to criticize other people's sensitivities.

My belief is you would reach a more receptive audience and you'd have a better chance to express your ideas.


Pocaracas,

So what if my mind cannot grasp just how things came into being?

That would mean you lack belief in any explanation that might account for our existence.

Robvalue

Atheism is not a belief.

Actually it is but saying it's not doesn't help the cause. Even if you define atheism as a lack of belief it means you lack belief the universe and humans were caused by God. You don't deny the universe exists therefore you believe some non-god explanation is responsible for the existence of the universe even if you think matter always existed. You're not going to be silly enough to say you lack belief in God but nevertheless believe God was responsible for the existence of the universe right? Of course not, due to your lack of belief in the existence of God you don't believe God is responsible in anyway for the existence of the universe.

[robvalue]

Thanks for telling me what I believe.

My turn. You believe in God, so obviously you think he is outside of reality. That means he is unreal, so therefor doesn't exist. So you believe that your beliefs are wrong. Oh, and you dislike really hot chillis.

[pocaracas]

Pocaracas,

So what if my mind cannot grasp just how things came into being?

That would mean you lack belief in any explanation that might account for our existence.

Indeed... Although, to be fair, I attribute a far lower likelihood to the possibility that some conscious entity willed the Universe into being, than to the possibility that it all happened through some unconscious process we are as yet unaware of.... or are just starting to unveil.

We experience unconscious processes all around us, every day.... we see galaxies and can trace their paths by assuming gravity and little else... The consciousness that wills everything into being would require that we first find it...

[Tonus]

Most atheists in my experience don't defend or support theory 2. Instead they bash, marginalize and demonize theory 1 in an attempt to make it look foolish and then claim we don't know how the universe came into existence.

Slight correction: few atheists attack theory 1 as much as they simply point out that there is no evidence to support it.  Theists want to force theory 1 into acceptance because it fits into a gap in human knowledge.  But as history has shown, whenever we learn anything about our world or universe that previously had a supernatural explanation, the actual explanation is natural.  The attempt to create a single alternative that is easily debunked is a transparent attempt to support theory 1 by implying that the only possible alternative is less probable.  This is far more dishonest than admitting that we don't know.

The "looks designed" and "fine tuned" arguments are quite poor in determining the possible existence of a creative force.  And as was pointed out, those arguments only get us to "a creator" at best.  If a believer in a particular god is reduced to word games and logical fallacies simply to get to "god has to exist," he has already marginalized his own theory and does not need any help from an atheist.

[Drew_2013]

[FatAndFaithless]

Uh..saying "if things were even a little different, we'd be fucked" is not evidence, at all for theism.