Christians : my problem with Christianity, some questions.

[professor]

Hi Atlas, I thought you had left this post.
The things you quote from the Koran are diametrically opposed to both the Old Testament and New.
It is no wonder you disagree with nearly everything I stated.

I suggested that prayer because in the days ahead multitudes are going to question what they have been taught.
I have no doubt you will be one of them.
I wish you well.

[pocaracas]

My point of view is no, god created us knowing, that we would live only by worshiping him, eating & thanking him for the delicious taste, watching the cherry blossom then share a smile with the nature he created, by willingly providing your loved ones food & shelter, to some cases you might even get a pet, feeding it is also a worship to god ; we can do good, but it's all gotta take place, while believing he exists. Believing he is one, complete, doesn't play games with humans via wearing a human skin and waving to the crowds from a cross.
[...]
God is perfectly just, that's why he must accept good, no matter how small it is. The condition though, is to believe in god himself, the one, the creator. I think christianity was forged right in this spot, to instead of copying what Jesus peace be upon him said literally, they opened a hole in the religion to make people live and sin as much as they can, then just because they believed in the lord they would be saved. Which negates a just god.

My underlining...
Why such emphasis on believing?

Don't you think that a god, if it had ever spoken to mankind, would say something more along the lines of "believe no man, for they all lie" (House: everybody lies), "I am the truth and you shall hear it from me and none other"... "not even a book written by men".
And that, boys and girls, is how both christianity and islam are false - their gods are all too human... all too flawed.... all too reliant on false humans.
Of course, they'll say that those two humans, Jesus and Mo, were perfect and in touch with the divine... of course, how else could you overcome that huge obstacle that "everybody lies"?
Convince everyone that only those two were perfect (ok, just one at a time, one for each religion, each region) and the tale told about them is absolutely true.... and people follow that "perfection".

[Drich]

I'll give you points on having a clearer view of what justice is that some christians, Atlas. What you do should be more important than what you say. Even most christians who believe works do play an important part will still say that worshiping Yahweh comes first. So you have Jeffrey Dahmer in heaven while Mahatma Ghandi is in hell.

Actually so do we... Literally. Dahmer was born again.

[WinterHold]

I'll give you points on having a clearer view of what justice is that some christians, Atlas. What you do should be more important than what you say. Even most christians who believe works do play an important part will still say that worshiping Yahweh comes first. So you have Jeffrey Dahmer in heaven while Mahatma Ghandi is in hell.

Point agreed on, chad32, from the quranic logic I understand, deeds and actions are more important than mere faith, actually a faith can't be totally "believed" by its carrier, unless the believer does work to fuel their faith ; actually a strong firm faith usually comes after providing work.

As an example, freeing slaves & charity are committed before becoming a "believer". And that is described as being the "difficult pass".

( 11 ) But he has not broken through the difficult pass.
( 12 ) And what can make you know what is [breaking through] the difficult pass?
( 13 ) It is the freeing of a slave
( 14 ) Or feeding on a day of severe hunger
( 15 ) An orphan of near relationship
( 16 ) Or a needy person in misery
( 17 ) And then being among those who believed and advised one another to patience and advised one another to compassion.
http://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#a...rans=en_sh

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Professor ; I guess ?

I think you wrote that comment :

The God of the bible made everlasting covenants with ISRAEL. Which Islam ignores.

Actually no.
First, since god is just, there is no such thing he makes as "everlasting covenants" with creations whom can commit right or wrong ; it all depends as I discussed with you earlier, with the actions of the believers :

( 38 ) Here you are - those invited to spend in the cause of Allah - but among you are those who withhold [out of greed]. And whoever withholds only withholds [benefit] from himself; and Allah is the Free of need, while you are the needy. And if you turn away, He will replace you with another people; then they will not be the likes of you.
http://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#a...rans=en_sh

( 39 ) If you do not go forth, He will punish you with a painful punishment and will replace you with another people, and you will not harm Him at all. And Allah is over all things competent.

And, the sons of Israel did break the oath :

( 12 ) And Allah had already taken a covenant from the Children of Israel, and We delegated from among them twelve leaders. And Allah said, "I am with you. If you establish prayer and give zakah and believe in My messengers and support them and loan Allah a goodly loan, I will surely remove from you your misdeeds and admit you to gardens beneath which rivers flow. But whoever of you disbelieves after that has certainly strayed from the soundness of the way."
( 13 ) So for their breaking of the covenant We cursed them and made their hearts hard. They distort words from their [proper] usages and have forgotten a portion of that of which they were reminded. And you will still observe deceit among them, except a few of them. But pardon them and overlook [their misdeeds]. Indeed, Allah loves the doers of good.

And another :

( 4 ) And We conveyed to the Children of Israel in the Scripture that, "You will surely cause corruption on the earth twice, and you will surely reach [a degree of] great haughtiness.
( 5 ) So when the [time of] promise came for the first of them, We sent against you servants of Ours - those of great military might, and they probed [even] into the homes, and it was a promise fulfilled.
( 6 ) Then We gave back to you a return victory over them. And We reinforced you with wealth and sons and made you more numerous in manpower
( 7 ) [And said], "If you do good, you do good for yourselves; and if you do evil, [you do it] to yourselves." Then when the final promise came, [We sent your enemies] to sadden your faces and to enter the temple in Jerusalem, as they entered it the first time, and to destroy what they had taken over with [total] destruction.
http://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#a...rans=en_sh


And there are numerous, many many many verses about the covenant, how the ancient Israelies broke it, and how god is just because he replaced them with another people indeed -Jesus peace be upon him & his followers-, sadly when they changed their faith to "christianity" after jesus is gone & rome is "enraged", he replaced them with Mohammed peace be upon him and his followers.

That's the concept of the Quran in this matter ; according to my personal opinion from reading the verses. But the book spoke A LOT about this, it didn't ignore it at all.

[downbeatplumb]

I'll give you points on having a clearer view of what justice is that some christians, Atlas. What you do should be more important than what you say. Even most christians who believe works do play an important part will still say that worshiping Yahweh comes first. So you have Jeffrey Dahmer in heaven while Mahatma Ghandi is in hell.

Actually so do we... Literally. Dahmer was born again.

Yes Monsters are welcome in heaven.

All they have to do is submit.

Do you not see why this is a failed ideology.

[h4ym4n]

Father (1)
Son (2)
Holy Spirit (3)

So that's 1.. 2.. 3..

Yes the Personages of God.

Again God being a title, and not a name.

Dritch, were all three present from the beginning? When God said " let there be light" jesus and ghost were right there with yahweh, right?

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[robvalue]

Ted Rogers explains the trinity:

http://youtu.be/GedJGLGxIXE

[GrandizerII]

Father (1)
Son (2)
Holy Spirit (3)

So that's 1.. 2.. 3..

Yes the Personages of God.

Again God being a title, and not a name.

Dritch, were all three present from the beginning? When God said " let there be light" jesus and ghost were right there with yahweh, right?

---

Drich said in response to me that they are all eternal. But the way he said it makes it sound like he believes in three Gods, not one.

[h4ym4n]

Dritch, were all three present from the beginning? When God said " let there be light" jesus and ghost were right there with yahweh, right?

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Drich said in response to me that they are all eternal. But the way he said it makes it sound like he believes in three Gods, not one.

Well if jesus was there from the beginning, and he is also omniscient, he knew that at some point in time he would have to be sacrificed.

Would you agree Dritch?

[Nope]

Dritch, were all three present from the beginning? When God said " let there be light" jesus and ghost were right there with yahweh, right?

---

Drich said in response to me that they are all eternal. But the way he said it makes it sound like he believes in three Gods, not one.

When Jesus was dying he asked why god had forsaken him. That sounds like Jesus did not consider himself god at that moment.

I would also like some biblical verse saying that the word god is a title. I think it is used as a general noun to describe what group bible god belongs. The word woman describes my group but isn't my title. The word god isn't a title. We don't say God Thor, for example. If Drich has a specific bible verse to prove god is a title then I would appreciate him showing us that verse

---

I'll give you points on having a clearer view of what justice is that some christians, Atlas. What you do should be more important than what you say. Even most christians who believe works do play an important part will still say that worshiping Yahweh comes first. So you have Jeffrey Dahmer in heaven while Mahatma Ghandi is in hell.

Actually so do we... Literally. Dahmer was born again.

So, if an unsaved woman is brutally beaten during a gang rape and dies she goes to hell. If her attackers accept Jesus in jail then they go to heaven