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RE: Christians : my problem with Christianity, some questions.
March 27, 2015 at 8:01 am
All evil is forgiven, as long as you say the magic words, but if you don't say the magic words no amount of good will help you. That's the kind of justice these people believe in, and that's why theocracies don't work.
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RE: Christians : my problem with Christianity, some questions.
March 27, 2015 at 2:33 pm
Apparently theocracies can work if no one knows it's a theocracy!
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RE: Christians : my problem with Christianity, some questions.
March 27, 2015 at 2:45 pm
Christians have managed to convince a lot of people here that the USA was founded as a christian theocracy, despite the constitution not mentioning christianity, god, or Jesus once in the whole document. It mentions religion, in the context of not establishing one. Then there was the treaty of Tripoli, where they make it as obvious as they possibly can.
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RE: Christians : my problem with Christianity, some questions.
March 27, 2015 at 3:23 pm
It's a sick irony to me that England is a theocracy but almost perfectly secular in reality, whereas the USA is officially secular but suffers far more religious interference at every level.
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RE: Christians : my problem with Christianity, some questions.
March 27, 2015 at 3:28 pm
(March 27, 2015 at 3:23 pm)robvalue Wrote: It's a sick irony to me that England is a theocracy but almost perfectly secular in reality, whereas the USA is officially secular but suffers far more religious interference at every level.
Well we are becoming secular slowly but surly we are.
Atheism is a non-prophet organization join today.
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RE: Christians : my problem with Christianity, some questions.
March 27, 2015 at 3:29 pm
Sure, I am confident it will happen 
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RE: Christians : my problem with Christianity, some questions.
March 27, 2015 at 4:16 pm
This thread is like having a bunch of bald men, fighting over an hairbrush.
Still entertaining 
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RE: Christians : my problem with Christianity, some questions.
March 27, 2015 at 6:28 pm
(March 27, 2015 at 7:43 am)Nope Wrote: (March 27, 2015 at 7:14 am)Irrational Wrote: Drich said in response to me that they are all eternal. But the way he said it makes it sound like he believes in three Gods, not one.
When Jesus was dying he asked why god had forsaken him. That sounds like Jesus did not consider himself god at that moment.
And that's why later Christians came up with the doctrine of homeostatic union: that Jesus is somehow fully God and fully human at the same time, even more confusing than the Trinity.
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RE: Christians : my problem with Christianity, some questions.
March 27, 2015 at 6:44 pm
(This post was last modified: March 27, 2015 at 6:45 pm by WinterHold.)
pocaracas
Just for clarification, belief as a requirement, assumes that the person already heard about Islam and knew what it's talking about without any biased opinions affecting their judgement.
That being said ; I'll reply now.
Quote:Why such emphasis on believing?
Don't you think that a god, if it had ever spoken to mankind, would say something more along the lines of "believe no man, for they all lie" (House: everybody lies), "I am the truth and you shall hear it from me and none other"... "not even a book written by men".
Since god is just, I personally think he must also repay you with the same attitude you give. i.e neglecting him would mean he would neglect you too ; thus you are doomed.
In other words, the payment is from the same race of the action.
God is neither human, nor display human feelings or personality in the Quran ; which would lead to this kind of extremely just methodology in judgement : forget & you shall be forgotten, ignore and you shall be ignored. You gave up on the merciful hopeful idea, of a better life after death, thus you shall not taste the life you neglected & ignored ; as you gave up on god's mercy you shall not receive a mercy.
While, if you believed, you didn't neglect neither forgot, thus you won't be neglected nor forgotten ; too, and the mercy you believed in and the hope you filled your hurt with shall engulf you.
Though, the scales of the afterlife are different ; as I mentioned above infinitely accurate, to what's smaller than the atom.
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RE: Christians : my problem with Christianity, some questions.
March 27, 2015 at 7:17 pm
(March 27, 2015 at 6:44 pm)AtlasS2 Wrote: pocaracas
Just for clarification, belief as a requirement, assumes that the person already heard about Islam and knew what it's talking about without any biased opinions affecting their judgement.
That being said ; I'll reply now.
Quote:Why such emphasis on believing?
Don't you think that a god, if it had ever spoken to mankind, would say something more along the lines of "believe no man, for they all lie" (House: everybody lies), "I am the truth and you shall hear it from me and none other"... "not even a book written by men".
Since god is just, I personally think he must also repay you with the same attitude you give. i.e neglecting him would mean he would neglect you too ; thus you are doomed.
In other words, the payment is from the same race of the action.
God is neither human, nor display human feelings or personality in the Quran ; which would lead to this kind of extremely just methodology in judgement : forget & you shall be forgotten, ignore and you shall be ignored. You gave up on the merciful hopeful idea, of a better life after death, thus you shall not taste the life you neglected & ignored ; as you gave up on god's mercy you shall not receive a mercy.
While, if you believed, you didn't neglect neither forgot, thus you won't be neglected nor forgotten ; too, and the mercy you believed in and the hope you filled your hurt with shall engulf you.
Though, the scales of the afterlife are different ; as I mentioned above infinitely accurate, to what's smaller than the atom.
Cool reply... reminds me of what my wife has said on the subject (she's catholic).
But I still find the part where you base it in the qur'an a bit sketchy... was the qur'an not written by people?
If got wants you to acknowledge its existence, and it knows very well that a man-made book is prone to carry lies, then it wouldn't rely on such a book to tell people about itself. Nor should it rely on "oral tradition", even more fallible. Much less on indoctrination.
Bar those methods of letting people know about the god, and, in our reality, you're not left with much, huh?
God itself is sort of absent.
Why should I worry about a non-evident after-life, when my very evident life is so wonderful and in need of my attention?
Now... considering there is some sort of after-life, if I ignore the christian god, while I'm alive, but believe in the islamic god... then I may be in the wrong and end up with a christian after-life where their god is mad at me for not listening to the right people.
And repeat for pretty much every other after-life belief mankind has ever had... and ever will have, or may have.
And it brings us back to "people".
People are the conveyors of the message and that is very very sub-optimal.... considering the nature and possible consequences of such a message.
I'd expect god itself to provide the message, directly and unambiguously... instead... we get what we know we have...
Something that looks made by men, for men, with men... not very convincing for me.
But there's tons of people that find it convincing... oh well...
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