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Was it necessary to create anything?
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Alex, we (as screwed up as we are) have a pretty good sense of what is right.
You guys have a lot of say right here on AF about that topic. I do not know how what is just is decided. Good question though.  RE: Was it necessary to create anything?
March 26, 2015 at 9:36 am
(This post was last modified: March 26, 2015 at 9:41 am by robvalue.)
If God didn't decide it, then not even his judgement matters. He is just a puppet in that regard.
Is he a puppet to someone? To himself, did he decide to set things this way and now cannot change? Or has he always been bound this way? Sure, we try to decide right and wrong through help and harm evaluations. But if God isn't all powerful, arguments could be made for the greater good, although that requires complete confidence in him being benevolent. Feel free to send me a private message.
Please visit my website here! It's got lots of information about atheism/theism and support for new atheists. Index of useful threads and discussions Index of my best videos Quickstart guide to the forum  (March 26, 2015 at 8:21 am)professor Wrote: When you combine all Just with all powerful- you get a range of behavior that you do not leave.You are describing a person of cosmic power and intellect, who nonetheless painted himself into a corner that forces him to treat his own creation with appalling contempt... which you will likely claim he also doesn't wish to do. Sorry prof, but the god you're describing is one clumsy fuck-up of a guy.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
-Stephen Jay Gould
You guys never fail to amuse me.
Smaug- that was funny. Tonus and Rob- I have heard that all things come to one who is patient. I am going with what I know, and the rest will be manifest later.
I'd love to know where you get your information prof
 It's nice that you don't just respond with, "yeah but you atheists..." like almost everyone else. Feel free to send me a private message.
Please visit my website here! It's got lots of information about atheism/theism and support for new atheists. Index of useful threads and discussions Index of my best videos Quickstart guide to the forum RE: Was it necessary to create anything?
March 26, 2015 at 10:00 am
(This post was last modified: March 26, 2015 at 10:04 am by professor.)
You know Rob, all I can say about where I get info (and that question really caused me to stop for a moment)
is that I have been on God's trail for 43 years, always wanting to learn, and to please Him who bought me. If you never give up on a mission like that- you will absorb what you need. A little OCD helps too. A confession- I view all of you (yes even Min) as deserving to be treated nicely. I see you much like myself.  RE: Was it necessary to create anything?
March 26, 2015 at 10:34 am
(This post was last modified: March 26, 2015 at 10:36 am by Alex K.)
(March 26, 2015 at 9:35 am)professor Wrote: Alex, we (as screwed up as we are) have a pretty good sense of what is right. My question was not so much how we determine what is just, but how it is determined what is just for God. Does God get the idea what is just and unjust from some higher pre-existing principle, or does He decide it Himself by fiat?
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
 RE: Was it necessary to create anything?
March 26, 2015 at 10:49 am
(This post was last modified: March 26, 2015 at 10:51 am by Smaug.)
A new theological hypothesis absolutely unquestionable Truth with a capital letter "T":
Premises: a. God is by several orders more complex than man and exhibits properties that allow him to be called quasi- omniscient, omnipotent. b. Everything has a cause or a creator. Reasoning: Since God is so complex he obviously couldn't have come into being by an accident. Outcome: God was created in 6 seconds with all of his features in place. He was created by an even more superior being. All hail God^2!!! 
I guess I should have been more direct.
Our sense of justice (because we see thru a glass dimly- often, and lacks critical information frequently) is not perfect. Whereas, a being having complete understanding is not limited as we are, and is able to utilize (as you said) a higher principle. To me, "Fiat" has the connotation of shoving down someone's throat arbitrary cavalier dictums. So I do not buy that view. Smaug, if you keep that complex stuff up, you may end up where you currently do not want to go.  (March 26, 2015 at 9:35 am)professor Wrote: Alex, we (as screwed up as we are) ... That is a problem though. If God were perfect, he would not create imperfect things. (Not to mention, that he would not create anything at all, as he would have no need of it, and no desire for it, as that would mean that he lacked some good in himself that would be desired, and consequently would not be perfect.) The idea that a perfect being would create people is ludicrous. If he is omniscient, he would have known in advance how it would go, and so that would mean that he actually wanted the mess that is the world. No being that isn't psychotic would want the world as it is. "A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence." — David Hume, An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding, Section X, Part I.
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