Helping Christians to lose faith?

[robvalue]

You assume a lot about the people here. Many were theists way before they become atheists.

You're doing the argument from ignorance. You're making up an unsupported conclusion and claiming it is right because we can't prove otherwise. It's not valid, and it's pointless.

Good for you if you've had those experiences. Is it possible you are mistaken as to their nature?

[FatAndFaithless]

You expect the world to be perfect.

Nope, the world is pretty fucked up in some areas.

That's why you believe there is no God.

Wrong again. I just don't accept your claim that there is one.

You are afraid of his existence.

Again, wrong. I can't be afraid of something I don't believe in.

You will use your philosophical ideas and what little science has learned to say there is no God.

0 for 4 here. We don't say 'science and philosophy proves there is no God'. We say 'everything science and philosophy has learned has not demonstrated any need for the god concept at all'.

Science has never come to the conclusion how life started and you all know that is true.

Of course we aren't certain, and we may never be, but that doesn't give you license to crowbar in unsubstantiated God claims.

Science doesn't know they can only assume this is what happened.

Absloute certainty is a red herring, our understanding of he world is necessarily probabilistic. And if you're going for 'assuming this is what happened', then look no further than 'assuming' the Bible is actually true.

The answer will never be found by using science.

Any evidence for this assertion?

You all want it to be a fairy tale if God does exist, but it doesn't work that way.

What we want is irrelevant to reality.

I have had an interaction with God. He came to me one night and said he forgave me for all my sins and though I did not see his face I felt his hand on my shoulder. I have seen things that I hope none of you should ever see.

And how would you prove a Muslim or a Hindu or a Jew or a member of another Chrstian sect wrong if they said the same thing about their god?

I have seen evil. No its not because they are mental or are faking it. They have been evaluated by your doctors and they have said we don't know what's wrong with them.

Again, the lack of an absolutely certain conclusion (and I'd like to hear your specific examples, by the way) is not an excuse to shove in your unfounded assertions.

You will laugh though and you will say I am not afraid because that stuff is fake. You will give me an answer about what you think it is.

I won't give you an answer, but that doesn't mean yours is any more correct.

You live a happy life not because God does not exist, but because that's what the devil wants for you to not believe in God.

The devil is giving me a happy life? Isn't that what following God is supposed to do?

Many of you remind me of Jesus disciples. No matter how many times Jesus showed them he was the Son of God they still denied him. They did not want to believe because how could someone like that exist?

Forgive us for being skeptical, I'd wager you wouldn't accept the testimony of prophets/disciples of other religions.

They refused to believe until Jesus showed them all his miracles.

So why doesn't God show me a miracle if it was good enough for Saul and the other disciples, and all the random-ass people that saw Lazarus and the water-wine and the loaves and fishes? Why are they more desrving of proof, if this God wants us all to believe?

And yet some still did not believe. Like Jesus said "There are some who have seen me, but do not believe in me yet there are those who have not seen me and believe." If what you say is true then run the numbers and use the theories of science to bring you to the conclusion that we are just here by chance and nothing else. Ignorance I have never ignored science, I admire science but I know it will never explain our existence. Why we love the way we do and laugh. When you need him the most I promise you that you will think about praying to him at least once.

Well that was a load of bollocks.

[Norman Humann]

You  expect the world to be perfect. That's why you believe there is no God. You are afraid of his existence.

Do not tell us what we think, thanks a lot.

You will use your philosophical ideas and what little science has learned to say there is no God. Science has never come to the conclusion how life started and you all know that is true. Science doesn't know they can only assume this is what happened.

Actually, science has a couple of pretty good ideas about how life might have started, whereas your religion only says "god did it".

The answer will never be found by using science.

Yes, because bronze age myths are much more reliable than the scientific method.

You all want it to be a fairy tale if God does exist, but it doesn't work that way.

And you all want it to be true that god exist, but it doesn't work that way.

I have had an interaction with God. He came to me one night and said he forgave me for all my sins and though I did not see his face I felt his hand on my shoulder. I have seen things that I hope none of you should ever see.

I have had an interaction with god, too. He told me to kill myself and everyone I knew.

I have seen evil. No its not because they are mental or are faking it. They have been evaluated by your doctors and they have said we don't know what's wrong with them. You will laugh though and you will say I am not afraid because that stuff is fake.

This is all a naked assertion and cannot be evaluated. There's nothing I can say about that, because the only information I have is what you said, which is not reliable.

You will give me an answer about what you think it is. You live a happy life not because God does not exist, but because that's what the devil wants for you to not believe in God.

Again, do not tell us what we do or will do.

Many of you remind me of Jesus disciples. No matter how many times Jesus showed them he was the Son of God they still denied him. They did not want to believe because how could someone like that exist? They refused to believe until Jesus showed them all his miracles. And yet some still did not believe. Like Jesus said "There are some who have seen me, but do not believe in me yet there are those who have not seen me and believe."

If there is a god, he is absolutely terrible at providing evidence for his existence. You'd think if he was omnipotent, he could, I don't know, talk? And if he were real, why would there be so many religions? And so many denominations?

If what you say is true then run the numbers and use the theories of science to bring you to the conclusion that we are just here by chance and nothing else. Ignorance I have never ignored science, I admire science but I know it will never explain our existence. Why we love the way we do and laugh.

Type one error in cognition: false positive, detecting patterns where there are none. Our brains evolved to spot recurring patterns in nature and those who saw them even when they weren't there survived better than those who didn't see them at all. This leads to people seeing faces in trees, toasts and inanimate objects, interpret coincidents as purposeful actions and so on.

I personally subscribe to the idea that cause and purpose are a property of the animal mind. Frankly, I doubt the rest of the universe gives two shits about us. I don't see why there needs to be a reason for everything. Shit happens.

When you need him the most I promise you that you will think about praying to him at least once.

The only thing religion has given me is self-loathing, misery and mental health issues. I don't need your god, I prefer sanity.

[robvalue]

I'll show you how afraid I am of God dude.

*clears throat*

God, you're the most vile, evil fascist dictator in history, you're an absolutely disgusting megalomaniac with about every psychotic personality flaw possible. If you weren't imaginary, I'd kick your ass right now for being such a dick for ages then hiding behind the firmament ever since. If you'd like to stop me saying all this about how pathetic you are and that you exist only in the imagination of your followers, I give you explicit permission to explode my head right now and shut my stupid atheist crap up. Are you going to do that, or are you gonna carry on having a threesome with that stupid pointless smelly ghost thing and your pencil eraser of a son?

Let's see what he makes of that shall we? Hehehe.

[xmark27]

Many of you are strong people and well educated I believe. You keep ignoring the fact that the chances of there being life, an intelligent life is literally impossible if you go by using your common mathematical equations. Ask any man who is well equipped in the concept of math and science, what are the chances of there being life here and the number will frighten you. You may say things to God and laugh and say "see its a load of crap" but he is listening. I doubted his existence at one time and said no it is not possible. It cant be because there is to much suffering in this world. I did so much research and tried putting this whole puzzle together using science and math. God gives us freewill to do whatever we want. We choose our path. You say then why is this world so messed up and why do so many people suffer and die? If there was a God then why does he let his happen? This isn't Gods work. We do this to ourselves.

[FatAndFaithless]

Many of you are strong people and well educated I believe. You keep ignoring the fact that the chances of there being life, an intelligent life is literally impossible if you go by using your common mathematical equations.

Evidence, please. How did you come to that conclusion?

Ask any man who is well equipped in the concept of math and science, what are the chances of there being life here and the number will frighten you.

What is the number?

You may say things to God and laugh and say "see its a load of crap" but he is listening.

Demonstrate that, please. And why should I be afraid if he is? Is his ego that fragile?

I doubted his existence at one time and said no it is not possible. It cant be because there is to much suffering in this world. I did so much research and tried putting this whole puzzle together using science and math. God gives us freewill to do whatever we want. We choose our path. You say then why is this world so messed up and why do so many people suffer and die? If there was a God then why does he let his happen? This isn't Gods work. We do this to ourselves.

So..was he unable or unwilling to prevent to Holocaust?

[Norman Humann]

Many of you are strong people and well educated I believe. You keep ignoring the fact that the chances of there being life, an intelligent life is literally impossible if you go by using your common mathematical equations. Ask any man who is well equipped in the concept of math and science, what are the chances of there being life here and the number will frighten you.

Small chance =/= impossible

As evidenced by our very conversation.

You may say things to God and laugh and say "see its a load of crap" but he is listening.

What an awfully totalitarian world you must live in, with the big brother eavesdropping and watching your every move. I find it extremely comforting to know that it's bullshit, though it took me quite a lot of time to recover from the sensation that someone is spying on my thoughts. It was truly horrible and I don't wish that on anyone. It's a man-made concept designed to control the gullible with fear, nothing else.

I doubted his existence at one time and said no it is not possible. It cant be because there is to much suffering in this world. I did so much research and tried putting this whole puzzle together using science and math.

If that's the only reason you doubted the existence of an omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient, disembodied mind that created the entirety of the universe yet is deeply concerned about what a single human individual does with his genitals, you haven't examined the claims made by your religion very thoroughly.

God gives us freewill to do whatever we want. We choose our path. You say then why is this world so messed up and why do so many people suffer and die? If there was a God then why does he let his happen? This isn't Gods work. We do this to ourselves.

Oh, I just never get tired of hearing this one.

Good things happen = you should praise the lord
Bad things happen = it's your own fault/satan did it

Lovely.

Tell me, is the god omnipotent? According to your religion, yes. This means he has the power to prevent anything from happening, no?
Is he omniscient? Again, your religion says so. This means he knows about everything that is happening, right?
Is he benevolent? This one is stressed a lot by christers. Apparently he loves us all and has our best interest at hand, correct?

If he is omnipotent and omniscient, he cannot be benevolent, because he does nothing to prevent the human suffering.
If he is omnipotent and benevolent, he is not omniscient, because he does not appear know about the human suffering.
If he is omniscient and benevolent, he is not omnipotent, because he does nothing to prevent the human suffering.

[robvalue]

I've got a degree in maths, thank you very much. First class with honours, overall 97%.

There is no "God" variable in mathematics. You are making up explanations. Or rather, parroting flawed argument from people who don't know what they are talking about. I've heard this shit many times before. There are so many planets in the universe that it's not the least bit surprising that at least one of them happened to support some form of life. There's a nonzero probability of it, we know this because it has happened. What we do not know, or have any evidence for, is a magical wavy hand of Morgan Freeman fucking around with some mud and making people out of it. That is a fantasy explanation, flatly contradicted by all real science.

Science does not claim absolute certainty, because it is honest, and it seeks to improve given new data. It doesn't claim to know everything, because again it is honest and this is a ridiculous claim to make. But just because it doesn't know everything, that lends no credibility at all to fairy tale explanations with absolutely no evidence behind them.

Maths dude out.

[Brian37]

Many of you are strong people and well educated I believe. You keep ignoring the fact that the chances of there being life, an intelligent life is literally impossible if you go by using your common mathematical equations. Ask any man who is well equipped in the concept of math and science, what are the chances of there being life here and the number will frighten you. You may say things to God and laugh and say "see its a load of crap" but he is listening. I doubted his existence at one time and said no it is not possible. It cant be because there is to much suffering in this world. I did so much research and tried putting this whole puzzle together using science and math. God gives us freewill to do whatever we want. We choose our path. You say then why is this world so messed up and why do so many people suffer and die? If there was a God then why does he let his happen? This isn't Gods work. We do this to ourselves.

Not an argument. There certainly are WORLDWIDE people of all religions who accept science but still shove the god of the gaps argument in when they hit a gap they have not filled yet.

Science as a process itself is religion independent regardless of the personal beliefs of those who might be scientists. There is no ALLAH theory of entropy anymore than there is a Thor theory of lightening.

When a religious person, layperson or scientist, cant prop up their god claim, they either attack science and when they cant do that they try to co opt science. I have seen this tactic from Christians and Muslims and Hindus and even once a Rastafarian.

Religion is not universal. Scientific method itself has never required the scientist to hold a personal belief, it has always been religion independent. 

Victor Stenger's "New Atheism" says something I agree with 100%. While true some scientists are willing to treat religion and god separately from the lab, he was not a fan of splitting the baby. He does say in that book, if something has evidence for it, we should expect, even if we cannot see it directly, the affects it has on the objects we can observe. Basically in that book he says sciences DOES have something to say about god claims.

[xmark27]

1 to 1e40. God is not some movie. You expect him to do everything for you. To prevent everything. It doesn't work that way.