Helping Christians to lose faith?

[Crossless2.0]

You keep ignoring the fact that the chances of there being life, an intelligent life is literally impossible if you go by using your common mathematical equations. Ask any man who is well equipped in the concept of math and science, what are the chances of there being life here and the number will frighten you.

The number, in terms of probability, is 1.  Thanks for playing.

[FatAndFaithless]

1 to 1e40.

That doesn't make any sense. Are you trying to say "1 raised to the power of 1x10^40" ?

Because that's still 1.

[Norman Humann]

1 to 1e40. God is not some movie. You expect him to do everything for you. To prevent everything. It doesn't work that way.

Then he is not benevolent, so don't sell me this loving father shit anymore.

He is allegedly an omnipotent being who created me and has my best interest in mind. Of course I fucking expect him to do something, but he doesn't do anything. Gee, it's almost as if he's made up or something...

[xmark27]

God works in mysterious ways...

[Norman Humann]

God works in mysterious ways...

LOL. That's gold. Are you a Poe?

[FatAndFaithless]

Yeah, this guy is giving off some major Poe vapors.

[robvalue]

Ok I'm calling it. Time of poe... 17:25 GMT.

We did all we could people. We took these arguments seriously and scepticalized the hell out of them. Sometimes things just aren't what they seem.

I'll see you all back here at 18:00, I've gotta go persecute someone for an arbitrary reason.

Tell me more about this "e"...

[watchamadoodle]

Tell me, is the god omnipotent? According to your religion, yes. This means he has the power to prevent anything from happening, no?
Is he omniscient? Again, your religion says so. This means he knows about everything that is happening, right?
Is he benevolent? This one is stressed a lot by christers. Apparently he loves us all and has our best interest at hand, correct?

If he is omnipotent and omniscient, he cannot be benevolent, because he does nothing to prevent the human suffering.
If he is omnipotent and benevolent, he is not omniscient, because he does not appear know about the human suffering.
If he is omniscient and benevolent, he is not omnipotent, because he does nothing to prevent the human suffering.

It's all a spelling mistake by St. Augustine. He meant to say that God is "Omni-impotent", but he was distracted by the voices in his head and wrote "omnipotent".

[Tonus]

Then tell me Tonus once again why you don't believe.

Because there is no evidence to support the existence of any of the gods that men worship.  Because the books that those gods supposedly wrote are not any different from any of the other myths and legends and simple moral fables that men wrote or told in those days.  Because those gods tend to display some of the worst and most twisted power fantasies of ambitious and tyrannical men.  Because the more we learn about our world and our universe and ourselves, the more we realize that none of it requires a god.  Because not a single one of those gods has ever led his followers to a level that clearly distinguishes them from any other people who followed any other god, or none at all.

When I removed the presuppositions and pre-existing ideas that I had accepted without verification, I found that there was nothing to support the idea that god exists.  If I must first believe in order to believe, then belief is useless.  When I made belief useful, god vanished.

[ThomM]

Sometimes I wonder if I should be openly and vocally atheist in an effort to help my family and friends to lose faith.

Any ideas?
- My mother is 70 and I doubt if she would ever lose faith, but I could be surprised. I try to pretend to believe a little bit for her sake. Her beliefs are somewhat fundamentalist and also somewhat superstitious (Eastern Orthodox)
- My brother and his family believe similarly to my mother except less strongly.
- My sister and her husband are Lutherans.

I feel bad leaving them to believe nonsense when I might be able to help them - especially my brother and sister. On the other hand, it could create a big mess.

The end of religion as we know it is already well developed - enough so that they have predicted its extinction in several major Western countries within this century. You do not have to feel bad that there are still believers - but they are few and getting fewer where it counts.

It took a while - but year after year - sciience puts another nail in the coffin of what was bible inerrancy. From a situation where the church put people to death who dared say the bible was not completely true - we have evolved to where the church admits that there are large portions of the bible that are nothing more than "stories"  - bedtime tales - and we do not have to believe them. OF course the church has no choice in that - when they are PROVEN to be wrong.

So what HAS happened was shown in a study done by the Pew Research institute - which showed that while among the old folk - there is still widespread belief - as you question younger people - that is where churches see their end. A majority of young people admitted that they do not believe - but fail to show that to prevent family problems - however they have no intention of supporting religion or religious education when more of the old folks pass.  The MAJOR problem for religion in general - and not just christianity - is two-fold.

1- The is mass disregard for the position that religion takes on the inferiority of women - and women rebel against raising their children to learn that position. That is a basis for the decay of the Muslim religion especially.
2 - But the biggest problems for the churches is that while their numbers are staying steady because of third world conversion (Some of which include things like christian voodoo) - it is the Wealth and Educated western people who essentially bankroll religion who are defecting.  The third world people do not contribute money in the way that Western people once did - so they see their MONEY support disappearing.

And without money - you get less christian education - the Catholic church has already closed more than half of all their Schools. And without christian indoctrination - you have even less christians - and the wondrous cycle continues. WE already see the MASS (Pun not intended) closing of Churches - Temples - and other places of worship ALL over the world.

So while you have a problem with some of your family still indoctrinated in the nonsense - at least you can see the light at the end of the Tunnel too!