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Just read this and tell me what you think.
June 3, 2015 at 9:02 am
(This post was last modified: June 3, 2015 at 10:04 am by rary.)
It is extremely difficult for me express my thoughts into writing but I will try my best.
Right, atheists believe there is no life after death, no supernatural being or world and so on.
Their belief is based on the laws of Physics.
All information we receive is through our five senses, which is then processed in our brains, which also affects our understanding and thinking.
So we know that our brain is responsible for the way we perceive this world we live in.
With certain substances (for example DMT) our minds can be 'altered' where we now live in a completely new world. This new world does not obey the laws of physics. We meet and interact with other beings. The time we spend in this new world is as life like as any.
My thought is, how can we be so sure this new world is only an illusion and not real? The information we receive in this new world is still being processed by our brains, just as though it is right this moment whilst you are reading this post. The brain is the same, the only difference is the way your process the information you receive.
The time we spend in this new world with an 'altered' mind although relatively short; still exists as you have seen and have been in this place.
If you were living in this new world with the 'altered' mind for longer than a few hours, say few years, would you not believe this new world as your only world?
How do you know right this moment whilst you are reading this post your mind is not 'altered' from a time before you were born on this planet?
The brain naturally produces DMT, at three points, a large amount when you are born and when you die, and a small quantity whilst you are dreaming.
This adds to my point, if you were to take DMT right now, you will be transported to a whole new world, the way you perceive information is now completely different to what has been since you have lived. So.. when you are born DMT can be seen in the brain in large quantities.. and when you die DMT can be seen in the brain in large quantities. Can you see the link?
Edit: By a 'new world' I don't literally mean, you physically locate yourself to a whole new world, I mean that the way you now perceive things are so different to how you 'normally' do, that you see and are in a whole new world (in your mind). The new place you see is so life like that you believe this is real whilst the time you are there. The only difference is the way your brain processed the information it was receiving. However at the time it feels just as real as it does right now while I am sitting here typing on my computer.
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RE: Just read this and tell me what you think.
June 3, 2015 at 9:06 am
(This post was last modified: June 3, 2015 at 9:06 am by FatAndFaithless.)
(June 3, 2015 at 9:02 am)rary Wrote: Right, atheists believe there is no life after death, no supernatural being or world and so on.
Their belief is based on the laws of Physics.
Needs a correction right off the bat. Atheists simply do not believe in god. That's it. Plenty of atheists don't know shit about physics, and some believe things that directly flies in the face of established science.
That's because "I don't believe in a god" is all that 'an atheist' is. Nothing else necessarily follows from that.
Quote:All information we receive is through our five senses, which is then processed in our brains, which also affects our understanding and thinking.
So we know that our brain is responsible for the way we perceive this world we live in.
With certain substances (for example DMT) our minds can be 'altered' where we now live in a completely new world. This new world does not obey the laws of physics. We meet and interact with other beings. The time we spend in this new world is as life like as any.
My thought is, how can we be so sure this new world is only an illusion and not real? The information we receive in this new world is still being processed by our brains, just as though it is right this moment whilst you are reading this post. The brain is the same, the only difference is the way your process the information you receive.
The time we spend in this new world with an 'altered' mind although relatively short; still exists as you have seen and have been in this place.
If you were living in this new world with the 'altered' mind for longer than a few hours, say few years, would you not believe this new world as your only world?
How do you know right this moment whilst you are reading this post your mind is not 'altered' from a time before you were born on this planet?
The brain naturally produces DMT, at three points, a large amount when you are born and when you die, and a small quantity whilst you are dreaming.
This adds to my point, if you were to take DMT right now, you will be transported to a whole new world, the way you perceive information is now completely different to what has been since you have lived. So.. when you are born DMT can be seen in the brain in large quantities.. and when you die DMT can be seen in the brain in large quantities. Can you see the link?
This sounds like one hell of a philosophy/epistemology question which I am utterly unqualified to answer, so I'll leave it to the philosophical heavyweights on this forum. I just wanted to correct your initial premise because it's a misconception we very often see on here.
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RE: Just read this and tell me what you think.
June 3, 2015 at 9:15 am
(June 3, 2015 at 9:02 am)rary Wrote: It is extremely difficult for me express my thoughts into writing but I will try my best.
hi and welcome 
(June 3, 2015 at 9:02 am)rary Wrote: Right, atheists believe there is no life after death, no supernatural being or world and so on.
Imma stop you right there-atheists don't believe in god. that's it. no extra functions included
(June 3, 2015 at 9:02 am)rary Wrote: Their belief is based on the laws of Physics.
atheists don't have a belief, but disbelief. we don't believe god exists. period.
and we don't necessarily base our disbelief on physics, definitely not just on physics. it comes mainly from critical thinking and examining the claims made by religion
(June 3, 2015 at 9:02 am)rary Wrote: All Information we receive is through our five senses, which is then processed in our brains, which also affects our understanding and thinking.
So we know that our brain is responsible for the way we perceive this world we live in.
no argument there
(June 3, 2015 at 9:02 am)rary Wrote: With certain substances (for example DMT) our minds can be 'altered' where we now live in a completely new world. This new world does not obey the laws of physics. We meet and interact with other beings. The time we spend in this new world is as life like as any.
that's not exactly true, we stay in the same physical reality which continues to follow the laws of physics, we just are influenced to think otherwise
(June 3, 2015 at 9:02 am)rary Wrote: My thought is, how can we be so sure this new world is only an illusion and not real? The information we receive in this new world is still being processed by our brains, just as though it is right this moment whilst you are reading this post. The brain is the same, the only difference is the way your process the information you receive.
The time we spend in this new world with an 'altered' mind although relatively short; still exists as you have seen and have been in this place.
If you were living in this new world with the 'altered' mind for longer than a few hours, say few years, would you not believe this new world as your only world?
we cannot be sure this world isn't an illusion and the only thing the existence of which we can be cetain of is ourselves
and as I mentioned, substances that alter our mind don't take us to other worlds....they just make us think they do
(June 3, 2015 at 9:02 am)rary Wrote: How do you know right this moment whilst you are reading this post your mind is not 'altered' from a time before you were born on this planet?
I don't
(June 3, 2015 at 9:02 am)rary Wrote: The brain naturally produces DMT, at three points, a large amount when you are born and when you die, and a small quantity whilst you are dreaming.
This adds to my point, if you were to take DMT right now, you will be transported to a whole new world, the way you perceive information is now completely different to what has been since you have lived. So.. when you are born DMT can be seen in the brain in large quantities.. and when you die DMT can be seen in the brain in large quantities. Can you see the link?
I can see the link you're attempting to make, but like I said above..... yes, drugs cause hallucinations. no, hallucinations are not real events.
don't do drugs kids....you might find yourself on the philosophy subforum 
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RE: Just read this and tell me what you think.
June 3, 2015 at 9:17 am
DMT =dual mode transmission ??
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RE: Just read this and tell me what you think.
June 3, 2015 at 9:18 am
Any comment on the unknown is speculation.
I can't remember where this verse is from, I think it got removed from canon:
"I don't hang around with mostly men because I'm gay. It's because men are better than women. Better trained, better equipped...better. Just better! I'm not gay."
For context, this is the previous verse:
"Hi Jesus" -robvalue
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RE: Just read this and tell me what you think.
June 3, 2015 at 9:19 am
Your premise is flawed on all accounts. When you take a hallucinogen, you are not creating a new world that defies the laws of physics. You are still squarely in this world, but your brain is perceiving things that aren't because of the drug you took.
The idea that endogenous DMT is produced in the human brain is only conjecture. If you could provide a source, that would be nice. It does exist in large enough quantities to matter in the cerebrospinal fluid.
None of this matters, because you still aren't transported anywhere when you take DMT. You are here. Your experiences all happen here. Your brain is just interpreting inputs in a radically different manner.
"There remain four irreducible objections to religious faith: that it wholly misrepresents the origins of man and the cosmos, that because of this original error it manages to combine the maximum servility with the maximum of solipsism, that it is both the result and the cause of dangerous sexual repression, and that it is ultimately grounded on wish-thinking." ~Christopher Hitchens, god is not Great
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RE: Just read this and tell me what you think.
June 3, 2015 at 9:23 am
(This post was last modified: June 3, 2015 at 9:26 am by Losty.)
1) I don't know squat about the laws of physics. Sorry.
2) No amount of DMT (whatever that is) will make my brain perceive anything when it's dead. You have to be alive in order for your brain to perceive things.
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RE: Just read this and tell me what you think.
June 3, 2015 at 9:26 am
First of all, welcome to the forum.
I can't speak for all atheists, but my reasons for not believing in god are not based on physics, but simply the fact that there is no evidence for one.
Second, you are right, I can't be sure everything isn't an illusion. However, the same applies to everyone, including the religious. You just have to sort of enjoy your life, and make the best of it even if it were unreal.
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. -Bertrand Russell
Even if god did exist, he has yet to prove it, and our doubt is justified.
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RE: Just read this and tell me what you think.
June 3, 2015 at 9:27 am
(This post was last modified: June 3, 2015 at 9:30 am by robvalue.)
Hello 
Yeah, you guys already have it covered. I can't in any way be sure what I'm experiencing isn't some form of hallucination. All I can do is proceed regardless. Too bad, I guess!
And yeah, drugs screw with your brain, you don't actually go anywhere. Except where you wander into things because you're fucked out your head.
I posted this very point on the forum yesterday, I think it was, that all we can do is assume what we experience is real for convenience.
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RE: Just read this and tell me what you think.
June 3, 2015 at 9:29 am
ah.... I see it... my brain is in the matrix. How can I tell that it is not?!
I can't, if the matrix is constructed well enough.
But if reality is different from how I perceive it, then... maybe if I take an unbiased sensor - one that works the same way regardless of who is holding it.... say like a camera!
If the picture on the camera is the same as the "picture" in the brain, and other people agree with that, then I guess we have a good basis to trust that our senses - in this case, sight - are measuring the reality that is and not some alternative reality that a brain may randomly produce from some faulty sensors.
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