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World's Oldest Christian Church discovered in Jordan!!
RE: World's Oldest Christian Church discovered in Jordan!!
(December 17, 2008 at 12:46 pm)chatpilot Wrote: Did it ever occur to you Psalm that if this Jesus existed that he was just trying to fullfil the prophecy by mimicking some of the things foretold about what he would do or say.
Good point.
RE: World's Oldest Christian Church discovered in Jordan!!
Thanks Adrian,but even today it is evident that most people that believe in prophecies be they biblical or from other sources spend thier time looking for the fullfilment of those prophecies everywhere.If you have ever read the books on Nostradamuses quatrains you would see how many authors have tried to read modern occurences into his quatrains.Christians do the same thing they try to read modern occurences into biblical prophecies all the time interpreting them as signs of Jesus eminent return.
There is nothing people will not maintain when they are slaves to superstition


RE: World's Oldest Christian Church discovered in Jordan!!
Yeah. People look for signs. They look for what they want to see. Because we are pattern-seeking apes. Its often perhaps more of a challenge to see what is there than what one desires to be there. And of course you still have to look through your own eyes. It will always be interpretation.
But science is such a beautiful system that allows people to address reality and often helps them to free themselves of delusion.
I believe..
RE: World's Oldest Christian Church discovered in Jordan!!
One thing that maybe not have anything about to do about this.

But that Jesus of Nazareth, or Jesus Christ if you want, may have existed. But as many historican believes where he probably some kind of rebelic leader. he was prboably a activist. He was according what I read on wikipedia: The historical Jesus was a Galilean Jew living in a time of messianic and apocalyptic expectations. You can read more at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jesus.

Theres alot things there that intresting, such as the may have been more popular people named Jesus during that time. That he also was a follower of religious activist John The Baptist and followed his learnings.

Anyway thats intresting but the most intresting that immidetly prove that existense of the Jesus in bible is wrong, taht he wasnt buried by his followers then came to life and so on is this:

After crucifixion, bodies would have normally been exhibited for some time as a warning to the myriad other antagonists in Jerusalem, and eventually left in a shallow mass grave, exposed to wild dogs and other scavengers.[citation needed] Crossan, based on his unique position that the Gospel of Peter contains the oldest primary source about Jesus, argued that the burial accounts become progressively extravagant and thus found it historically unlikely that an enemy would release a corpse, contend that Jesus' followers did not have the means to know what happened to Jesus' body.

Jesus the histrocial person may have existed. But he was more of an icon and a symbol for the rebellion in israel during that time against the roman empires occuopation. But probably wherent to much importent during that time, he cant been to much of a trouble for the roman empire. If he was he would been mentioned in Roman writing and in Jewish writing. Romans always wrote down everything that was importent, they wrote about the rebellion in israel. Both the wins, losses and embaresment. They also wrote down the importent persons names at that time that where concidering dangerous or someone theyve heared much of. If he was such a importent person that he is potrayed in the bible then he certinly would be mentioned somehwhere in roman writing, but he havent.

He probably havent done any miracles and magic tricks. If so where he either good at doing easy medical treamtents, or placebo that later have been exagerated. Or like it says in the wikipedia article that stories about him doing miracles may also come from other older myths that he later been said been doing.

THe image of him was probably a mixture of myths, tales and legends. There have never existed a Jesus described in the bible. The character that he is based on have probably existed. But he were certinly a human and certinly just a religious activist which image have been exagerted during the elapse of time.

I mean there is also a myth about Levis that he never died that he still lives, even though there are evidence sayin that he died- even pictures. It have only been like 30 years since his death imagine what the story will be hundreds years of now?
RE: World's Oldest Christian Church discovered in Jordan!!
The entire life of Jesus Christ as it comes down to us today in the form of the Gospels is based entirely on fiction and hearsay.There is not a single author of the N.T. that personally knew Christ during his lifetime and even the authors whose names have been appended to the gospels are in doubt as to authenticity of authorship by the named person.
There is nothing people will not maintain when they are slaves to superstition


RE: World's Oldest Christian Church discovered in Jordan!!
Its not impossible that the person Jesus of Nazareth exicted. But since, as chatpilor said, are every story based on hearsay and they who wrote it down didnt know the guy.

Its quite possible that havent exicted that he was ficitonal. Like Santa or someone like that. I mean Muhammed do we know exicted not only because the things written in the koran (curan? dont know how its spelled in english) but also in other texts confirming that he acctully was a living breathing person. But the things that he was supposed to have done, for example seeing angels and so on is of course just something made up. He were clearly hallucinating or somehting.

Like I wrote earler is the most posilben thing that- if he exicted- were not so specially importent. Not dangerous for the romans or people that didnt liked his ideas and were not sepcially popular. No texts or evidence about that Jesus have never been discovered or seen anywere. If he were a threat for the romans, in a rebellic way, then they would mention him. But it seem more like he just were just one of many activits.

But! Since he now have whole religion based on him, which only a apopular guy can get, is the REALLY possible thing that its just a mythical, ficitonal carachter. Probably based on diffrent stories, maybe about other people. The image of him is probably a mixture of diffrent legendary persons in diffrent myths. The name Jesus were probably the name of one of those charcters that became the name of the Jesus Christ in the bible. The year he was supposed to be born was prboably the time when the story about some being son to god started to spread. probalby someone who claimed he was that, which probably was many because during taht time did many claim similar things like Jeusus suppose to have done in the bible.

I will do some more research about this, it´s fun thing to learn more about. Then I will start a thread were I write down my conclusion about this. I believe that the origin of the story about Jesus of naxareth (the christ) is very complicated and older then we think it is. At the time the bible was written which was 50 years or more after Jesus death. But since it took a very long time spreading a story or religion at that time indicates that myth about Jesus must be older. The bible were surely wirtten at the time it was beginning to become quite popular, enough popular to be conicdering to be written down which only educated people could do. in other words rich people or priests of some sort.

Anyway I will try to dig in to this more, when I have time and start a new thread to find out the origin of the myth about Jesus.
RE: World's Oldest Christian Church discovered in Jordan!!
Giff the origins of the myth of Jesus are ancient sumerian myths and even some of the most prominent religions from which Christianity borrowed from are Mithraism,Krishna,even sun worship as practiced by the Romans of the period.I actually have a book entitled '16 Crucified Christ' it's a classic and it pretty much breaks down the origins of Christianity pretty well.
There is nothing people will not maintain when they are slaves to superstition



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