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Current time: April 26, 2024, 5:18 am

Poll: Who is right here?
This poll is closed.
She was right; you were wrong.
33.33%
5 33.33%
You were right; she was wrong.
20.00%
3 20.00%
You're both right, and you're both wrong.
46.67%
7 46.67%
I don't give a rat's ass.
0%
0 0%
Total 15 vote(s) 100%
* You voted for this item. [Show Results]

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Your opinions, please
#11
RE: Your opinions, please
It sounds as if you forgot the Golden Rule of arguing with women.



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#12
RE: Your opinions, please
(December 7, 2015 at 4:07 pm)TheRealJoeFish Wrote: [...]I think of everything that's happened to me in my life, the sheer huge number of days that I've lived and the number of thoughts and sensations and interactions I've had on every single one of those days and, then I think to myself... every single one of those thousand people that I've seen today, driving their car or walking or on tv or anywhere else... they've all had that same magnitude of experiences and interactions and sensations and such.

One word: Sonder.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkoML0_FiV4
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#13
RE: Your opinions, please
I think the congratulations should've been a sufficient acknowledgment of her support and renewed trust in you (in this particular matter).  Maybe the congratulations was her way of making amends and saying sorry. If you got upset, she may have viewed that as you insisting that she apologize for not trusting you on this matter, when she had a pretty good reason not to...by your own admission.

On the other hand, if you're not dependent or prone to alcohol-induced rage (or similar negativity), maybe it's just not reasonable to expect you abstain from drinking alcohol altogether. In that case, it's possible that you may be harboring resentment for being asked to change and give up something you enjoy...all while kind of being monitored.
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#14
RE: Your opinions, please
Is there anyone else who wishes to comment?

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#15
RE: Your opinions, please
My first reaction to the thread's title was...




But then I read the OP...
Well, there's an old saying around here which translates roughly to: "a scalded cat is afraid of cold water".
She had been deceived once (at least) and was not looking forward to a second turn, so "shields up". Makes sense.
You, however, were being honest and felt it as a knife plunging into your resolve.

Then came that "congratulations"... one carrying a bit of sarcasm (due to lack of faith in you) and, I guess, a bit of encouragement (in case you were being honest... or even if you were just exaggerating the number of days).
You pursued a line of inquiry which led her to give you her main gut feeling about it - suspicion.
That shattered you. And here you are, asking who's right and who's wrong.

In my view, the best course of action is to persevere in your resolve to break the addiction. In time, either she'll become convinced that you've actually done it, or be replaced by someone who does appreciate that.

Why does it matter who's right and who's wrong?
Each is right in their own eyes.
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#16
RE: Your opinions, please
(December 8, 2015 at 1:16 pm)pocaracas Wrote: Why does it matter who's right and who's wrong?
Each is right in their own eyes.

Thanks for your opinion, first off -- lot of insight in there, and it's much appreciated.

I'm the sort of guy who will ask if I'm being wrong about something. In this particular matter, our positions seem pretty intractable, and efforts at resolution run aground on each our convictions of rightness. I wanted to phrase it as a poll so I could get a quick glimpse of opinion, and also wanted well-thought answers -- and I've certainly gotten that. But collecting those opinions would have invoked "right" and "wrong" immediately.

Why does that matter? Because if I'm wrong in my behavior, I need to change it; and if I'm right, I need to stand up for myself. And the same can be said of her.

Thanks again for you answer, Poca.

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#17
RE: Your opinions, please
I agree there is right and wrong on both sides in one sense, and in another sense it is no one's fault.

But I also completely understand and can totally relate to this:

thumpy Wrote:I'm the sort of guy who will ask if I'm being wrong about something.

and this:
Quote:Why does that matter? Because if I'm wrong in my behavior, I need to change it; and if I'm right, I need to stand up for myself.

Smile
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#18
RE: Your opinions, please
(December 8, 2015 at 1:36 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(December 8, 2015 at 1:16 pm)pocaracas Wrote: Why does it matter who's right and who's wrong?
Each is right in their own eyes.

Thanks for your opinion, first off -- lot of insight in there, and it's much appreciated.

I'm the sort of guy who will ask if I'm being wrong about something. In this particular matter, our positions seem pretty intractable, and efforts at resolution run aground on each our convictions of rightness. I wanted to phrase it as a poll so I could get a quick glimpse of opinion, and also wanted well-thought answers -- and I've certainly gotten that.  But collecting those opinions would have invoked "right" and "wrong" immediately.

Why does that matter? Because if I'm wrong in my behavior, I need to change it; and if I'm right, I need to stand up for myself.  And the same can be said of her.

Thanks again for you answer, Poca.

Smile
Sometimes, it's not that you're wrong... it's that you're approaching it wrongly.
Why stand up for yourself in such a thing as her not believing you completely? It's to be expected (considering your history) and, the more you try to show her (in a stalker way) how she's wrong, the more you'll drive her away. That's to be expected, too.
People don't like confrontation.
People don't like to be called liars, when they're sure they're being truthful.

If you really want to show her how you've changed, be calm and tactful about it.
Actually show her how you changed that aspect of yourself, instead of shoving it down her throat, if you get my meaning. Let her come to that conclusion.
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#19
RE: Your opinions, please
I personally think it seemed very even matched and right and wrong on both sides, but I didn't find her not believing you initially based on your past unreasonable, Thump, and I do think that when she congratulated you that you should have accepted her congratulations, because maybe she'd come to believe you at that point. However, if she started to mistrust you again after that, then that's another matter.

Thing is though, I don't know the full context and details, nor do I know the woman.
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#20
RE: Your opinions, please
(December 7, 2015 at 2:50 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: In the few weeks after I quit, she twice falsely accused me of drinking. The first time I didn't say anything, because I knew that my own dishonesty in the past had sown the seeds for her mistrust.


The only thing I have to offer here is that your avoiding conflict/anger in the first instance probably contributed to your stronger reaction to the second. Perhaps acknowledging what you're feeling the first time even couched in humor would serve you better. "Guess nobody's gonna believe me now." Something to register your hurt even while acknowledging the reasonableness of her being wary.


(December 7, 2015 at 2:50 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: The second time we had some words, and left off the conversation in a little heat.

Perhaps if you had said more the first time she'd be more mindful of the tension the second time. Doesn't mean she wouldn't have said anything but she might have done so in a manner consistent with two people trying to help one of them with a problem as their confidant.

(December 7, 2015 at 2:50 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: I didn't bring it up thereafter because I didn't want to start what would inevitably be an argument. She never acknowledged my protests nor apologized, and specifically refused to do so.

From her point of view, you attacked her out of the blue and beyond all proportion the second time. She doesn't know about the allowance you've already made for her earlier suspicion. She needed the feedback that while reasonable, her suspicion is still hurtful and she needed to get that the first time.

(December 7, 2015 at 2:50 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: But when I posted in social media about my making the one-month mark, she texted me her congratulations. I rejected her congratulations, writing her that her congratulations were hypocritical given her accusations.

I feel for you here. But making unspoken compromises to shield the other just sets you up for resentment that she doesn't really deserve. I have the same tendency but I am committed to communicating as soon as I recognize that I've done it again. Humor can help.


(December 7, 2015 at 2:50 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: It's been a sore spot between us since. She insists that I was entirely wrong for having refused her congratulations. She also thinks that in the week between her last false accusation and the texts which set off the argument, I should not have tried to avoided discussing the issue; she feels that I was being fake in that week. My attitude was "let's leave it behind us", until the congratulatory text, with its pretense.

She is right. Your well intentioned withhold earlier left her with a false reading of you. It didn't help.

Rejecting her congratulations hurt her. Looks like you may have tendered change in the same coin there my friend.


(December 7, 2015 at 2:50 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: I hold that congratulating me on my sobriety even as you hold to your charges of insobriety (which she did, she reiterated her charges in the argument that followed) is nonsense. If you are going to congratulate me, you'd ought to make note of your false accusation: "I guess I was wrong.  Congrats on your month!" ... or something like that. To skip that step feels dishonest.

Would you please give me your opinions, as laid out in the poll above, and the reasoning why you feel the way you do?

I sided with her in the poll. You had more power to improve the situation by being more communicative but didn't. We all make messes. Clean it up and move on.
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