Is philosophy dead?

[bennyboy]

Science generates sound propositions.  This was grossly missing from philosophy prior to it's existence, and without sound propositions..........philosophy is dead.

Baseball without a ball is dead, too.  But just because some people try to play it that way doesn't mean that baseball is dead.

[*Deidre*]

On another forum, someone was speaking about how math is becoming a philosophy. Perhaps, philosophy isn't dead at all, it's just being redefined?

Philosophy isn't a view.  It's a family name-- an umbrella-- for all schools of creative or critical thought.  Obviously, focus changes greatly as different philosophical ideas come in vogue.  But math has always been connected to philosophy, right from the start.

You know what's interesting about what you say here is, I always viewed philosophy as a school of subjective thought, and math has always been in the category of objectivity, in my mind. Can philosophy encompass the objective, as well? 

[bennyboy]

Philosophy isn't a view.  It's a family name-- an umbrella-- for all schools of creative or critical thought.  Obviously, focus changes greatly as different philosophical ideas come in vogue.  But math has always been connected to philosophy, right from the start.

You know what's interesting about what you say here is, I always viewed philosophy as a school of subjective thought, and math has always been in the category of objectivity, in my mind. Can philosophy encompass the objective, as well? 

I'd say two things about that.  First of all "philo" means love, and "sophy" means wisdom.  Philosophy, literally, is the love of wisdom.  I googled "what is philosophy" and got

the study of the fundamental nature of knowledge, reality, and existence, especially when considered as an academic discipline.

Clearly, modern science, and the beliefs and assumptions underlying science, fall under this umbrella. I view science as that branch of philosophy dedicated to the study of physical objects, properties, forces and events.

It is interesting to note that there is an important relationship in math: while numbers aren't "real," in that they are neither things nor properties of things, it is only by understanding numbers that the study of the physical universe can be done properly.

[*Deidre*]

You know what's interesting about what you say here is, I always viewed philosophy as a school of subjective thought, and math has always been in the category of objectivity, in my mind. Can philosophy encompass the objective, as well? 

I'd say two things about that.  First of all "philo" means love, and "sophy" means wisdom.  Philosophy, literally, is the love of wisdom.  I googled "what is philosophy" and got

the study of the fundamental nature of knowledge, reality, and existence, especially when considered as an academic discipline.

Clearly, modern science, and the beliefs and assumptions underlying science, fall under this umbrella.

I've learned something new today, so thank you. 

[Whateverist]

Poke it with a stick one more time. I thought I saw it move.

[The Grand Nudger]

Baseball without a ball is dead, too.  But just because some people try to play it that way doesn't mean that baseball is dead.

....lol?  When the players on the field..in this case philosphers...try to play it that way, it -is- dead. This is all that has ever been discussed behind that tagline, this is what was meant, despite your imaginative fantasies of the last few pages. This is a fact easily checked by sourcing the quote which started the conversation.

Much ado about nothing, again.

[Whateverist]

No what Benny, Chthulu and others have been saying is right. Philosophy is how we find our way out of darkness, and there is always more darkness. It is the way you step back and get a wider perspective. It is foundational. Science does this for our understanding of the natural world, but it can't by way of its own methods provide its own foundations.

The bad reputation philosophy gets might be the fault of the way people study it. In art there are studio classes and history-of classes. In school one rarely gets into the 'studio' where philosophy gets done. It might seem damning to compare philosophy to art but finding your way in the dark doesn't reduce to a decision procedure. Creativity is required, but not just the aesthetic kind.

[Whateverist]

To think the need for philosophy is over and that science can take it from here is a kind of secular end days fantasy. I doubt if many real scientists concern themselves with that kind of triumphalism.

[The Grand Nudger]

No what Benny, Chthulu and others have been saying is right.  Philosophy is how we find our way out of darkness, and there is always more darkness.  It is the way you step back and get a wider perspective.  It is foundational.

Sure.

Science does this for our understanding of the natural world, but it can't by way of its own methods provide its own foundations.

Neither can reason.

[bennyboy]

Baseball without a ball is dead, too.  But just because some people try to play it that way doesn't mean that baseball is dead.

....lol?  When the players on the field..in this case philosphers...try to play it that way, it -is- dead.  This is all that has ever been discussed behind that tagline, this is what was meant, despite your imaginative fantasies of the last few pages.  This is a fact easily checked by sourcing the quote which started the conversation.  

Much ado about nothing, again.

I think you're confusing the subject of philosophy with the redudant douchery that exists in academia today.  Look at almost ANY school, including some of the theoretical physics schools and almost all the humanities, and you'll see pompous know-nothings puffing up some bullshit position to keep a niche for themselves.  Yes, philosophy is particularly prone to this, since there's little that an academic can achieve that a reasonably smart person can't match with a few hours' free time and a couple dollars in late charges at their local library.

But it's not the death of philosophy, imo, that we're really talking about.  It's the oversaturation of academic institutions, and the struggle to find ANYTHING new to talk about, that leads to us all being buried in bullshit.