Still struggling.

[scoobysnack]

You sound more like a religious person, but that's not required to understand God. There is a difference. I believe in evolution and science but I still understand God exists. Perhaps you have not taken the time to research all that there is to learn. Most here will disagree that there is not a God because they have not found him, or that what there is to suggest the existence is not enough to jusifty a belief, and it's more rational to believe in the material world and nothing more.

Not sure OCD has to do with anything. Can you explain that more?

Have you taken the time to explore near death experiences at all, including the atheists who thought they had it all figured out, only to realize they were in the dark about all thing spiritual?

http://www.near-death.com/religion/atheism.html

Ever heard of Edgar Cayce? Deffinetly an interesting guy to look into, at least for a new perspective on what life is:

http://www.near-death.com/paranormal/edg...ences.html

Well, I was a religious person. I have not found god because I do not see any physical evidence for him. (If you have any besides personal expirences and eyewitness accounts please state them and your sources.).
OCD Is and anxiety disorder, its intrusive thoughts that bring anxiety, discomfort, or doubt that people use compulsions to relieve.
I have taken time to explore near death experiences. There is a chemical called DMT that gets released when we are near death and it can be taken as a recreation drug and people describe it similar to religious or spiritiual things.
Never heard of the guy, I will look further into it.

Just guessing you must be young, not that it's a judgement or anything. I used to suffer from severe depression which resulted in anxiety, but as you grow it will probably subside. It's amazing what we learn as we grow.  You might find the seven year life cycles interesting at least:

http://dreamhawk.com/body-and-mind/every...ou-change/

 I'm definitely familiar with the whole DMT explanation, but after my own personal research that doesn't explain everything. Edgar Cayce was known as the sleeping prophet. Probably the last person I should bring up on this forum haha, but an interesting person to learn about or be aware of. I'm sure I'll get a lot of shite for posting his name.
For me personally even though everyone here will say it's bravo sierra, the NDE is the best evidence of God. Especially since there are hundreds of stories of atheists coming in contact with Jesus, and God, or visiting various spiritual realms. The common theme people here react with is that they are lying, or delusional. Obviously because they want to protect their belief system.
http://www.near-death.com/science/research.html
Don't give up. God loves us all too much, and only wants what's best. The last thing you should do is turn your back, because your senses can't percieve his existence. The truth is there to find if you want to find it.

[Socratic Meth Head]

I came here a few days ago saying I had converted from Christian to Atheist, but was doubting a lot. I also mentioned I had OCD which may be contributing to the problem.


Heres an update.
1) The doubt is gone, but I still get this nagging feeling. My brain was condition to believe in god, and me trying to condition me otherwise is very difficult.

2) I started listening to the logical side of my brain. My OCD has been less 'triggersome' lately and I feel a lot better. I was able to dismiss thoughts that disturbed me so. Like "god's real, satan has got you". Instead of listening to my emotions, I listened to the logic side of my brain saying "There is no evidence for god. Theres evidence for evolution. Carbon Dating, Fossils, among other things. 2 stories of the bible had been proven false to me (Noahs Ark and Adam and Eve) so the rest will follow."

Still, this nagging feeling. Whenever there is a coincidence, like lately I've been seeing god being mentioned more "gods trying to help you". I would say "It's psychological. gods not 'appearing' more, I'm just noticing it more due to my stuggle." The nagging feeling goes away for a minute and then comes back.

My brain is still using indoctrination. My parents are wondering if I am an atheist, I can tell. I am scared they will convert me. My brother converted to atheism a bit ago and now they converted him back. He now says "I have zero doubt about god.". I now say "I am just as sure that god isn't any more real than fairies and santa."

I can combat my old personal expirence with god though. I was listening to christian music in 7th grade and I got this feeling of motivation and happiness. Now I say "People have a personal relationship with buddha and allah, if you believe in something, you will get motivated by it. Christian songs are designed to be motivational in nature also, with violins and upbeat, high, catchy tunes. I still get that nagging feeling tho.

Wat Do?

---

Also, I have always believed in things without much evidence. I always believe first ask later sadly. Now I am trying to do away with that. I have been conditioning myself to ask "Prove it" whenever someone presents something to me. I am very superstitious. I would wear special clothes for football games and wear hats for basketball. And as I said. I have a hard time acknowledging something as a coincidence. I keep feeling as if it were a "wink" from god.

Keep reading posts here.

Read books by atheist scientists and philosophical writers.

Watch great shows such as The Atheist Experience.

Watch Sam Harris and Matt Dillahunty posts on Youtube.

Also on Youtube, there's a great series by Steve Shives called "An Atheist Reads (book by title, such as "I Don't Have Enough Faith To Be An Atheist")". He'll take you through all the arguments in the popular biblical apologists' books which would reinforce the awful voices which have been planted in your head, and you'll feel smarter the more you watch him deconstruct every single fallacy in his brilliantly humerous style.

Laugh! YouTube hosts plenty of clips by atheist comedians.

Getting the fear out of your head takes time, but at least it doesn't take faith. Taking in sensible, eye-opening material to replace the garbage will help. Hang in there, and you will eventually wonder how anybody can seriously believe any religious doctrine, ridiculous as they all are. If you were taught what you were by your parents beginning at your present age, then of course you know you would have rejected it outright. This is why ideas such as invisible god-powers depend on indoctrination beginning at infancy in order to keep the turds in suits employed.

I have been reading posts here and almost everyone seems to be an intellectual here.
I've been watching Richard Dawkins documentaries about the superstitious and religion, Along with some of Hitchens. Mostly Dawkins though.
I have books coming in that are written by Dawkins.
I'll check them out.
Seems pretty cool, I've already grown to like the Armoured Skeptic so it seems kinda similar in a way.
I try to laugh, I have found myself laughing at very illogical things said by creationists. It's more of an "I'm uncomfortable" kinda laugh though.
Fear seems to be retracting now as a matter of fact. I feel as if I just needed to adapt to using my logic and reasoning side of my brain for a bit and let it get into gear. This may just be OCD and the doubt may come back.

Thanks for the reply!

[Edwardo Piet]

Dudes.... what gives? Make him watch youtube videos of William Lane Craig!

Meh, that's no biggy to cope with. Good old Sam shows us the way to cope with his BS:

:

http://atheistforums.org/thread-41495-po...pid1201275

[KevinM1]

Be weary of preachers like you are with used car salesman.

They are in sales.
They have ulterior motives..

The Vatican isn't gold plated out of their generosity...

I'm not a preacher? You say "Preachers like you" Is that a typo?

Re-read the sentence. He's saying that preachers are like used car salesmen, not that you're a preacher

And pay no mind to Scooby's ridiculous NDE crap. Stories from obvious non-skeptics who don't understand biology (if they're not simply liars, which has been the case before) aren't very compelling, regardless of whether or not they once labelled themselves atheist. He's been trying to push the tired "They were once atheists, but now have found god! Aren't you impressed/doubting yourselves?" thing since he got here, and is likely trying it in this thread because you present an easy target. You know Christians - they simply cannot abide anyone attempting to leave the flock.

[Socratic Meth Head]

Well, I was a religious person. I have not found god because I do not see any physical evidence for him. (If you have any besides personal expirences and eyewitness accounts please state them and your sources.).
OCD Is and anxiety disorder, its intrusive thoughts that bring anxiety, discomfort, or doubt that people use compulsions to relieve.
I have taken time to explore near death experiences. There is a chemical called DMT that gets released when we are near death and it can be taken as a recreation drug and people describe it similar to religious or spiritiual things.
Never heard of the guy, I will look further into it.

Just guessing you must be young, not that it's a judgement or anything. I used to suffer from severe depression which resulted in anxiety, but as you grow it will probably subside. It's amazing what we learn as we grow.  You might find the seven year life cycles interesting at least:

http://dreamhawk.com/body-and-mind/every...ou-change/

 I'm definitely familiar with the whole DMT explanation, but after my own personal research that doesn't explain everything. Edgar Cayce was known as the sleeping prophet. Probably the last person I should bring up on this forum haha, but an interesting person to learn about or be aware of. I'm sure I'll get a lot of shite for posting his name.
For me personally even though everyone here will say it's bravo sierra, the NDE is the best evidence of God. Especially since there are hundreds of stories of atheists coming in contact with Jesus, and God, or visiting various spiritual realms. The common theme people here react with is that they are lying, or delusional. Obviously because they want to protect their belief system.
http://www.near-death.com/science/research.html
Don't give up. God loves us all too much, and only wants what's best. The last thing you should do is turn your back, because your senses can't percieve his existence. The truth is there to find if you want to find it.

I am young, Depression seems common among younger people though.
I've already heard about the 7 year cycle, very interesting. I think Vsauce talked about it.
Well, DMT has been known to produce similar effects as "seeing god" and we have a gland to produce it, so it must have some evolutionary basis. As for Atheist coming in to contact with god, Christians have come into contact with Muhammad or Allah. Your point?
If god loves me he was so perfect to make me mentally ill. If he wants whats best then he shouldn't have made me this way and maybe he shouldn't take such pains to conceal his existence. I don't understand that phrase at the end, please elaborate.

---

I'm not a preacher? You say "Preachers like you" Is that a typo?

Re-read the sentence.  He's saying that preachers are like used car salesmen, not that you're a preacher

And pay no mind to Scooby's ridiculous NDE crap.  Stories from obvious non-skeptics who don't understand biology (if they're not simply liars, which has been the case before) aren't very compelling, regardless of whether or not they once labelled themselves atheist.  He's been trying to push the tired "They were once atheists, but now have found god!  Aren't you impressed/doubting yourselves?" thing since he got here, and is likely trying it in this thread because you present an easy target.  You know Christians - they simply cannot abide anyone attempting to leave the flock.

Misunderstood that, sorry.

[God of Mr. Hanky]

I'm not a preacher? You say "Preachers like you" Is that a typo?

Re-read the sentence.  He's saying that preachers are like used car salesmen, not that you're a preacher

And pay no mind to Scooby's ridiculous NDE crap.  Stories from obvious non-skeptics who don't understand biology (if they're not simply liars, which has been the case before) aren't very compelling, regardless of whether or not they once labelled themselves atheist.  He's been trying to push the tired "They were once atheists, but now have found god!  Aren't you impressed/doubting yourselves?" thing since he got here, and is likely trying it in this thread because you present an easy target.  You know Christians - they simply cannot abide anyone attempting to leave the flock.

Yeah, trying to leave the world of organized crime looks easy compared to the evils which the Christards will threaten you with...oh, wait, it's the origin of crime families!

[scoobysnack]

Just guessing you must be young, not that it's a judgement or anything. I used to suffer from severe depression which resulted in anxiety, but as you grow it will probably subside. It's amazing what we learn as we grow.  You might find the seven year life cycles interesting at least:

http://dreamhawk.com/body-and-mind/every...ou-change/

 I'm definitely familiar with the whole DMT explanation, but after my own personal research that doesn't explain everything. Edgar Cayce was known as the sleeping prophet. Probably the last person I should bring up on this forum haha, but an interesting person to learn about or be aware of. I'm sure I'll get a lot of shite for posting his name.
For me personally even though everyone here will say it's bravo sierra, the NDE is the best evidence of God. Especially since there are hundreds of stories of atheists coming in contact with Jesus, and God, or visiting various spiritual realms. The common theme people here react with is that they are lying, or delusional. Obviously because they want to protect their belief system.
http://www.near-death.com/science/research.html
Don't give up. God loves us all too much, and only wants what's best. The last thing you should do is turn your back, because your senses can't percieve his existence. The truth is there to find if you want to find it.

I am young, Depression seems common among younger people though.
I've already heard about the 7 year cycle, very interesting. I think Vsauce talked about it.
Well, DMT has been known to produce similar effects as "seeing god" and we have a gland to produce it, so it must have some evolutionary basis. As for Atheist coming in to contact with god, Christians have come into contact with Muhammad or Allah. Your point?
If god loves me he was so perfect to make me mentally ill. If he wants whats best then he shouldn't have made me this way and maybe he shouldn't take such pains to conceal his existence. I don't understand that phrase at the end, please elaborate.

---

Re-read the sentence.  He's saying that preachers are like used car salesmen, not that you're a preacher

And pay no mind to Scooby's ridiculous NDE crap.  Stories from obvious non-skeptics who don't understand biology (if they're not simply liars, which has been the case before) aren't very compelling, regardless of whether or not they once labelled themselves atheist.  He's been trying to push the tired "They were once atheists, but now have found god!  Aren't you impressed/doubting yourselves?" thing since he got here, and is likely trying it in this thread because you present an easy target.  You know Christians - they simply cannot abide anyone attempting to leave the flock.

Misunderstood that, sorry.

Well I would say atheists don't want people to leave the flock either from what I have experienced over the years and on this forum. Atheism has many different dogmas as well. Dig deep enough in this forum and you will find they disagree on what atheism actually means. In the end all perception of reality is sum of experiences, and I can't say that enough.

Part of understanding is accepting. From your perspective, you need to understand why you are the way you are. Is it a mental defect, or a challenge given to you to overcome? Trust me I used to curse God, and life for all the things I had to go through, but in the end it made me a stronger person, after time. Time is the key thing. All souls come to earth to inhabit human bodies for the life of the body, and accept the challenges that body will have. It's part of our learning process, and essential to our learning and wisdom. You can only overcome through challenges, and what you are in now is a challenge to help you grow, and create who you will grow into and become in the future. You will be a lot wiser than those who have not had your challenges and instead have had an easier life. Although we all have our challenges in life, through them we overcome them for ourselves to learn from them and grow. And with that growth we can help others, and the  process continues for all souls to experience the life in the physical realm so we are stronger and wiser when we enter back into the spiritual realm.

Just remember that you are young, and trust me as you get older things will become more clear. I can give you information, but you must grow to achieve the wisdom of experience. Trust me.

Check out this link about the purpose of life.

http://www.near-death.com/science/research/life.html

This song is also a good reminder:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmpU_73CXxU

[Socratic Meth Head]

I am young, Depression seems common among younger people though.
I've already heard about the 7 year cycle, very interesting. I think Vsauce talked about it.
Well, DMT has been known to produce similar effects as "seeing god" and we have a gland to produce it, so it must have some evolutionary basis. As for Atheist coming in to contact with god, Christians have come into contact with Muhammad or Allah. Your point?
If god loves me he was so perfect to make me mentally ill. If he wants whats best then he shouldn't have made me this way and maybe he shouldn't take such pains to conceal his existence. I don't understand that phrase at the end, please elaborate.

---

Misunderstood that, sorry.

Well I would say atheists don't want people to leave the flock either from what I have experienced over the years and on this forum. Atheism has many different dogmas as well. Dig deep enough in this forum and you will find they disagree on what atheism actually means. In the end all perception of reality is sum of experiences, and I can't say that enough.

Part of understanding is accepting. From your perspective, you need to understand why you are the way you are. Is it a mental defect, or a challenge given to you to overcome? Trust me I used to curse God, and life for all the things I had to go through, but in the end it made me a stronger person, after time. Time is the key thing. All souls come to earth to inhabit human bodies for the life of the body, and accept the challenges that body will have. It's part of our learning process, and essential to our learning and wisdom. You can only overcome through challenges, and what you are in now is a challenge to help you grow, and create who you will grow into and become in the future. You will be a lot wiser than those who have not had your challenges and instead have had an easier life. Although we all have our challenges in life, through them we overcome them for ourselves to learn from them and grow. And with that growth we can help others, and the  process continues for all souls to experience the life in the physical realm so we are stronger and wiser when we enter back into the spiritual realm.

Just remember that you are young, and trust me as you get older things will become more clear. I can give you information, but you must grow to achieve the wisdom of experience. Trust me.

Check out this link about the purpose of life.

http://www.near-death.com/science/research/life.html

This song is also a good reminder:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmpU_73CXxU

Yea, OCD is likely something I'll put up with until I die. Its just how it works, you loose one obsession you gain three more. If I do learn to deal with the OCD thoughts it wouldn't be because god would want me to? I'm born sick but forced to be strong? Not how it works man. You've linked me to the same website about 4 times, please state more sources than just one.

[scoobysnack]

Well I would say atheists don't want people to leave the flock either from what I have experienced over the years and on this forum. Atheism has many different dogmas as well. Dig deep enough in this forum and you will find they disagree on what atheism actually means. In the end all perception of reality is sum of experiences, and I can't say that enough.

Part of understanding is accepting. From your perspective, you need to understand why you are the way you are. Is it a mental defect, or a challenge given to you to overcome? Trust me I used to curse God, and life for all the things I had to go through, but in the end it made me a stronger person, after time. Time is the key thing. All souls come to earth to inhabit human bodies for the life of the body, and accept the challenges that body will have. It's part of our learning process, and essential to our learning and wisdom. You can only overcome through challenges, and what you are in now is a challenge to help you grow, and create who you will grow into and become in the future. You will be a lot wiser than those who have not had your challenges and instead have had an easier life. Although we all have our challenges in life, through them we overcome them for ourselves to learn from them and grow. And with that growth we can help others, and the  process continues for all souls to experience the life in the physical realm so we are stronger and wiser when we enter back into the spiritual realm.

Just remember that you are young, and trust me as you get older things will become more clear. I can give you information, but you must grow to achieve the wisdom of experience. Trust me.

Check out this link about the purpose of life.

http://www.near-death.com/science/research/life.html

This song is also a good reminder:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmpU_73CXxU

Yea, OCD is likely something I'll put up with until I die. Its just how it works, you loose one obsession you gain three more. If I do learn to deal with the OCD thoughts it wouldn't be because god would want me to? I'm born sick but forced to be strong? Not how it works man. You've linked me to the same website about 4 times, please state more sources than just one.

I used to think the same thing about my depression since it was all I knew. One day you might just snap out of it. Only you can be in charge of your emotions. Not trying to downplay OCD since I haven't experienced it, but just don't let it determine who you are. You ARE who you determine you will BE! Like I said time is the cure, and don't give up, because you are young. I'm 34, and still feel like I'm a kid, but have many more experiences than when I was younger and they all form who you are.

I don't mean to keep posting the same sources, but there are hundreds of perspectives on that source from all walks of life, from the suicidal, religious, atheist, scientists, skeptical, believers, teachers etc.

I hope you check out the links I gave you though. All I want to do is help, since I've been where you are.

[robvalue]

Gdog: You're right, the preacher does not understand evolution. Like almost everyone who "denies" it, he's presenting a strawman version of it, then saying "that's ridiculous". It is ridiculous, what he is saying, but it's also not the theory of evolution. It's his warped idea of it.

I'm very impressed with your research and handling of NDEs! We get a lot of people peddling that here, and it seems you need no help seeing through it.

From the time you've spent here, I feel confident saying you're going to beat this. I'm not saying it will be easy or that it will end up disappearing completely, but I believe it will end up being manageable. Like I've been depressed for many years, and I still am, but I've moved onto a place where I can keep it in check; it's in a fenced off area of my brain, where I have all sorts of strategies ready to poke it back should it try to emerge.

It may help to dispel some of the power the mythology has over you by confronting it directly. I've recommended this before, and I've seen it help people quite a bit. You can shout at God, "Hey! You suck! Why are you doing such a terrible job? I don't think you're even there at all! I'm not scared of you! Go ahead and blow up my head! Do it you chickenshit!"

Or words to that effect I understand that might be a lot to do at first, but maybe it's something you can build up to. Since I can guarantee nothing is going to happen (nothing that wouldn't happen anyway) you can see first hand that you're just talking to the air. Repeating this and becoming more intense as you "tell off" God and demand he show himself or leave you alone, may just cement in your mind that people really are just talking to themselves.