The Problem with Christians

[abaris]

And yet we put people to death on the basis of eyewitness testimony. Go figure. Clearly not all eyewitnesses are unreliable.

That would be because the system is flawed and not because of the quality of the testimony. If you could be arsed to look up the research on what Rocket posted, you would have your doubts. But you stick to your supernatural woo and find comfort in people babbling on about having witnessed it.

So what's your opinion on alien abducation? There are people swearing to have experiences it. They make a claim, so it has to be true, isn't it?

[The Grand Nudger]

We don't actually put people to death on the basis of eyewitness testimony, but I doubt anyone's going to let reality get in the way of their rationalizations for belief in the supernatural.

[The Valkyrie]

And yet we put people to death on the basis of eyewitness testimony. Go figure. Clearly not all eyewitnesses are unreliable.

That would be because the system is flawed and not because of the quality of the testimony. If you could be arsed to look up the research on what Rocket posted, you would have your doubts. But you stick to your supernatural woo and find comfort in people babbling on about having witnessed it.

So what's your opinion on alien abducation? There are people swearing to have experiences it. They make a claim, so it has to be true, isn't it?

And the eyewitness testimony in criminal cases is also backed up with forensic evidence.

[pocaracas]

2) We do not say "most plausible" as "my favorite guess". We say "most plausible" because what we do know so far fits best with the model of reality, and it is reasonable to infer (which is why, again, dozens of groups of researchers--including the Jet Propulsion Lab, NASA's top scientists--are working on the issue, because it is clear there is something to find) that the historical, physical/chemical mechanism by which life's basic chemicals arose and began to replicate will be found.

This is where I don't agree because to get DNA from a very haphazard, disordered environment, you have to reverse entropy. There is no such thing as a random code, so how are a bunch of random chemicals going to write one?

hahahaha reverse entropy!! GHAHAHAHAHAHAA LOL
no.
The second law of thermodynamics applies to a closed system. The planet Earth is nothing of the sort, except in a few special cases...
Life on Earth depends on the Sun.... very! And most of the Sun's energy is wasted into space.

So, mr scientist, try not to use that as an argument for anything... it's faulty.

[AJW333]

The scripture regularly predicts events that come true. As I look at the world today, it is exactly as the Bible predicted. I think the scripture has credibility because it reliably tells us the future. No other religion even comes close when it comes to accurate prophecy.

And so does Nostradamus if you bend and shape the letters sufficiently. I've yet to see any supposed prophecy not being open to at least a dozen interpretations.

How about this prophecy, it seems fairly straight forward,

"Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands." Revelation 20:4

To the casual (and dare I say the cynical) observer, this doesn't say much. However let's unpack it a bit. You have an obscure Jewish fisherman 2000 years ago make a prediction that in the last days, just prior to the return of Christ, (modern era) you will have Christians being beheaded for no other reason than being Christian. Until very recently, this wasn't happening, now it is. ISIS is beheading hundreds, if not thousands of Christians as we speak. Was John correct with his prophecy? Absolutely.

We've had an esteemed member calling himself the professor, who wasted his life away by interpreting the end of days coming last september. Going by bible verses, he bent to suit his particular brand of makebelief.

He should have paid more attention to the verse that says "no one knows the hour nor the day...."

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Says the idiot who thinks a passage in the bible about the c 500 bce formation of the kingdom of Judah actually refers to the 1948 creation of the Racist Theocracy of Israel.

I think you missed something here. The prophecy states that Israel will be regathered a second time. At the time of Isaiah around 700BC, when the prophecy was made, there had not yet been a dispersion of Israel and therefore no regathering.  Isaiah was predicting the dispersion in 586 BC. This was followed by the first regathering 70 years later. So when was the second dispersion? That was under the Roman Empire in Jesus' day and the second regathering was 1948.

Oh and on your "degree" post the certificate or it doesn't exist, because you don't understand scientific concepts you could teach to a toddler.

Put up $10k and I'll be glad to take your money.

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I'm quite familiar with the periodic table. When I use the world 'dirt" it goes without saying that it would include any and all possible mineral/element combinations.

You still haven't specified your "science degree", you lying fuctard asshole!

Administrator Notice
Fixed quote formatting. You're welcome -- Stimbo

If you call me a liar then I will call you on it. That's why there is a wager of $10k on it. Put your money on the table and I'll be more than happy to comply. Till then, enough of the false accusations.

[God of Mr. Hanky]

He should have paid more attention to the verse that says "no one knows the hour nor the day...."

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Well then you'd better get on your knees and prepare yourself - no more time to play with the Devil's toys online. It's called a "net" because it binds you up and separates you from your Lawd, yessiree it does! Go on Fool - get away from that keyboard and start pray'n, before it's too late!

Oh and on your "degree" post the certificate or it doesn't exist, because you don't understand scientific concepts you could teach to a toddler.

AJW333

Put up $10k and I'll be glad to take your money.

If you do that again, I will report you for online scamming for cash.

[The Valkyrie]

Vague prophecies put into a modern context.

ISI has murdered FAR more Muslims than they have Christians, just for being the "wrong" type of Muslim. Does that prophecy therefore mean that Shia Islam is the correct religion?

[AJW333]

" Free will is a property of the mind, an ability to make choices and goals for oneself, but it doesn't necessitate that you be successful at those goals, or productive in those choices.

Agreed.

To be clear, this is the only form of free will that you can be talking about without defeating your own argument, because if your definition of free will includes success in freely chosen actions necessarily, then free will is impinged upon every day simply by dint of our own physical limitations.

When I use the term "free will" it is with the understanding that it relates to actions that are possible.

 If free will doesn't necessitate that I be successful, then there's no reason at all for god to allow any form of human-imposed suffering, because that suffering could be freely chosen by those who wish to inflict it, without resulting in a successful end result for those people.

You may have to reword this as I don't follow the argument.

[abaris]

"Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands." Revelation 20:4

To the casual (and dare I say the cynical) observer, this doesn't say much. However let's unpack it a bit. You have an obscure Jewish fisherman 2000 years ago make a prediction that in the last days, just prior to the return of Christ, (modern era) you will have Christians being beheaded for no other reason than being Christian. Until very recently,  this wasn't happening, now it is. ISIS is beheading hundreds, if not thousands of Christians as we speak. Was John correct with his prophecy? Absolutely.

Yes, as I said, to the credulous it can mean anything they want it to mean. Do you by any chance remember the old song "bend me, shape me" by The American Breed? It's exactly what you're doing, what everyone's doing when it comes to prophecy.

You're unpacking nothing but your own ignorance here, if you're insisting it has to mean ISIS beheading christians, since the majority of people killed by ISIS are fellow muslims, who, in your christian bigotry, you associate with the mark of the beast.

Yes, bend me, shape me in the worst sense of the word. Quod erat demonstrandum.

[AJW333]

The bible makes many claims, each as dubious as the next.  It's strange, for example, that the bible doesn't accurately describe the formation of earth, or the emergence of animals, of our origins -even-.  Strange in that, purportedly, it's getting it's info from the guy who claims to have done all that.  I'd expect a creator god to know what happened, I'd expect a creator gods story to line up with reality.

This leaves us with a few possible explanations...none particularly flattering.  Either god (or the author purporting to write gods story) is misleading us about being the creator, or is misleading us in regards to the method, manner, and timeline of creation.  Or......the story has nothing to do with either any god, any creation, the author was simply mistaken.

Thoughts?

The Bible doesn't give much detail on how God made the earth but why is that a problem? In terms of reality, an all powerful God could spit a universe out of his mouth if he wanted, so why should we limit him in terms of his methodology? Does God have to make his ways fit our limited capacity of understanding?