Questioning Beliefs

[tackattack]

I'm missing your point Kichigai. I thought I was talking about questioning your belief as part of doctrine and the historical inequity attributed to religion. I missed where any of that dealt with the "wonder of my existence" . I think we have adisconnect, if you'd be so kind as to elaborate or rephrase I'd be most appreciative.

[AnunZi]

God nor the church forces you to do anything you do not want, you do truly have a choice. The gun does not take away the choice it's the evil person holding the gun. God is not evil He will not hold you hostage.

Complete bullshit. If you really do believe that then I pity your lack of vision.

Free will and open choice do not come with threats. There IS a consequence to the xitan idea of “Choice”. As I said in my original quote, “Think as we tell you or suffer eternal damnation!” and you think that’s not forcing people? Emotional blackmail? Amirite?
I used the gun example purely for illustration purposes as to my mind the so-called-choice your kind offers is the same thing.
I'm sorry if you can’t see it that way, but it’s as plain as day to me. It’s just a very thinly veiled threat.

Questioning ones belief is a natural human trait and it applies to belief in godand who he is.

This statement is bollocks.

“Belief in god”? That is not questioning your belief. That is questioning the nature of your belief. To question your belief who would need look at if god really exists rather than in which way you interpret your belief in it.

[Edwardo Piet]

I do read the Bible and I also study it, unlike you I'm sure. Cherry picking has no place in understanding.

Well surely you must cherry pick yourself, otherwise surely you must be completely ignorant of the fact that the "God" described in "The Bible" is utterly horrific?

[annatar]

Questioning ones belief is a natural human trait and it applies to belief in God and who He is. Questioning can be a good thing it makes one search for answers instead of taking anothers word about God and this will lead to a stronger relationship with Him. Annatar you and DiRNiS have no idea what you are talking about, you have no belief in any god, you participate in no religion so how can you say the things you say when you have no idea what really takes place in any religion. You want to be authoritative about christianity then start going to church and learn what happens in a christian church research and study scripture with an open mind you might very well be suprised.

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I was a believer before. I questioned my beliefs and look what happened.. when i said you cant keep believe in, it was the experience talking... Besides one doesn't need to be in the garbage can to recognize the garbage..
as for your advice to research, i got my free bible now I am reading it carefully and so far I am not impressed..

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

@Godschild

ALL believers[ in the Abrahamic faiths at least) cherry pick their beliefs .Their holy books are so rife with contradictions that they have no choice.

The beliefs of an individual say more about himself and his culture than his book,regardless of whatever sacred book he claims to follow. If that were not the case there would not be literally hundreds of competing sects, each claiming "truth" for their own specific interpretations.

The mind boggling arrogance of Christian exclusiveness is one of the things which turned me away from Christianity.It took another 20 years for me to be confronted with the inescapable conclusion of atheism. I asked questions and received no answers. I looked for God and could not find him anywhere.

THAT is why I have so little patience with the unthinking and unreflective apologists who turn up here with the patronising assumption that we have not heard and dismissed their tired arguments many times.* (in my case often decades before they were born)

@Tacky: In my opinion,you are the single exception on this forum. For what it may be worth; I do not often agree with,but I do respect you.

[Godscreated]

Questioning ones belief is a natural human trait and it applies to belief in God and who He is. Questioning can be a good thing it makes one search for answers instead of taking anothers word about God and this will lead to a stronger relationship with Him. Annatar you and DiRNiS have no idea what you are talking about, you have no belief in any god, you participate in no religion so how can you say the things you say when you have no idea what really takes place in any religion. You want to be authoritative about christianity then start going to church and learn what happens in a christian church research and study scripture with an open mind you might very well be suprised.

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I was a believer before. I questioned my beliefs and look what happened.. when i said you cant keep believe in, it was the experience talking... Besides one doesn't need to be in the garbage can to recognize the garbage..
as for your advice to research, i got my free bible now I am reading it carefully and so far I am not impressed..

That is what I said in an earlier reply.... when you question you will either turn away or become stronger.
Keep reading you never know, by the way why are you reading something you have dismissed as myth. I really do not understand.

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God nor the church forces you to do anything you do not want, you do truly have a choice. The gun does not take away the choice it's the evil person holding the gun. God is not evil He will not hold you hostage.

Complete bullshit. If you really do believe that then I pity your lack of vision.

Free will and open choice do not come with threats. There IS a consequence to the xitan idea of “Choice”. As I said in my original quote, “Think as we tell you or suffer eternal damnation!” and you think that’s not forcing people? Emotional blackmail? Amirite?
I used the gun example purely for illustration purposes as to my mind the so-called-choice your kind offers is the same thing.
I'm sorry if you can’t see it that way, but it’s as plain as day to me. It’s just a very thinly veiled threat.

Questioning ones belief is a natural human trait and it applies to belief in godand who he is.

This statement is bollocks.

“Belief in god”? That is not questioning your belief. That is questioning the nature of your belief. To question your belief who would need look at if god really exists rather than in which way you interpret your belief in it.

Please have no pity toward me for anything I'm very secure with my beliefs. Why do you think the church or any individual christian has authority over you eternial destination they do not, only you do. Christianity has nothing to do with pleasing others it's a relationship with God and yes there are stipulations to entering into that relationship. These stipulations are set by God not the church He has all the authority not the church. The church is comprised of all true believers and one of it's functions is teaching about Christ not giving ultimatums as you seem to believe in the above underlined. Yes I know there are individual churches that do what you have stated and they are wrong. God wants His people to promote peace not disension, to love others not to control people.

[Godscreated]

@Godschild

ALL believers[ in the Abrahamic faiths at least) cherry pick their beliefs .Their holy books are so rife with contradictions that they have no choice.

The beliefs of an individual say more about himself and his culture than his book,regardless of whatever sacred book he claims to follow. If that were not the case there would not be literally hundreds of competing sects, each claiming "truth" for their own specific interpretations.

The mind boggling arrogance of Christian exclusiveness is one of the things which turned me away from Christianity.It took another 20 years for me to be confronted with the inescapable conclusion of atheism. I asked questions and received no answers. I looked for God and could not find him anywhere.

THAT is why I have so little patience with the unthinking and unreflective apologists who turn up here with the patronising assumption that we have not heard and dismissed their tired arguments many times.* (in my case often decades before they were born)

@Tacky: In my opinion,you are the single exception on this forum. For what it may be worth; I do not often agree with,but I do respect you.

If I've come across as arrogant I'm sorry it was not meant that way. All other religions are exclusive they each believe that their way is the only way. I know you and most others on this forum have heard most arguments that christians have and dissmissed them to your satisfaction but that does not mean you are correct in that assumtion. I am not an unthinking and unreflective christian, I state what I believe to be true for myself and will defend what I believe when I think I should. I to become irritated on occasion when a very young atheist spouts things he/she knows very little about and expect me to accept it as truth when it's easy to see they have a great deal to learn about life in general.... experience means a great deal when arguing a point.

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I do read the Bible and I also study it, unlike you I'm sure. Cherry picking has no place in understanding.

Well surely you must cherry pick yourself, otherwise surely you must be completely ignorant of the fact that the "God" described in "The Bible" is utterly horrific?

I do admit there are a few times I will cherry pick but never in defense of God, I will search the scriptures for the truth of the ONE I trust my life to. On the few occasions I do cherry pick instead of studing the scriptures or other material is a limit on my time. No, I see no such God in the Bible. I do see why you would think so and usually that comes from cherry picking through the scriptures.

[annatar]

That is what I said in an earlier reply.... when you question you will either turn away or become stronger.

yes sometimes people who question their beliefs became more religious. But its not becouse they found answers its becouse they stopped questioning.
Let me tell you this with an example,
here our question: Why god doesn't prevent evil if he is able? Even superman uses his powers to help people. Why god just watching us suffer?
You have three options to these questions,
1: there is no god or god can't interfere the world which is definitely isn't jesus or allah or yahew or any other religion's god(s) ..
2: god is evil...
3top questioning and return to your little happy life..
If you have any alternative I would like to hear..

Keep reading you never know, by the way why are you reading something you have dismissed as myth. I really do not understand.

so what? I have dismissed lord of the rings as myth(it was a hard decision) but I read it anyway..
I like conversations about religions. Although I know a lot about christianity, the more I know about the topic the better...

[Godscreated]

What translation is that verse from would be interested to know. Now about the verse God is telling His chosen people that there will be a punishment for making and worshiping false gods and that punishment could go down a few generations because the parents are teaching the childern to hate God by their false worship. God was trying to make it clear to parents that their influence on their childern will have an adverse effect upon them. God says He will not let evil deeds go unpunished so be careful what you teach your childern.

Not sure what version, does it matter? I mean really? Most especially the old testament! I understand the scare tactics here, I use them on my kids too.

"Ya know son, every time you pick your nose, a kitten dies."

Funny thing is, it doesn't seem to work. hmm?

So you paraphrased it, that's why it does not match the three versions I use in my studies. God did not intend scare tactics He wanted His people to be responsible to the next generation, God did not want any generation to stray from worshiping Him. This example is carried into the NT when Jesus told His disciples to allow the children to come to Him, then Jesus said that it would be better for a man to put a millstone around his neck and drown himself than to keep any child from seeking Him. You see God never intended to punish the children for the parents sin only if they learned from their parents to do evil and hate God would they to be punished through that iniquity.

[KichigaiNeko]

I'm missing your point Kichigai. I thought I was talking about questioning your belief as part of doctrine and the historical inequity attributed to religion. I missed where any of that dealt with the "wonder of my existence" . I think we have adisconnect, if you'd be so kind as to elaborate or rephrase I'd be most appreciative.

Clearly we have Tacky.... your writing style is very .... well ...it is tricky for me to comprehend your intention; hence the question.

It would seem that the 'doctrine of Cog' is limiting in the questioning of any belief system or paradigm? Is it just self referrencing??