Muhammad Ali dead

[paulpablo]

What does any of what you've said have to do with anything what I've ever said?

Well, what did you mean by "he was aware of what happened to Malcolm X" then? Other than that his assassination had an influence. Which, following your narrative, couldn't have been much, considering that your citation is 8 years after said assassination.

Exactly, time goes forwards. Muhammad Ali made these statements after Malcolm's death. Hence him being aware of what happened to Malcolm X previous as memory works by remembering previous time.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I simply said that Muhammad Ali supported the kkk ideals of racial separation while he was under the influence of the Nation of Islam.

You obviously missed my point, that for a black man in 1960s America, the justification for racial separation was mistreatment at the hands of whites, while for the KKK, the justification was hatred of blacks. There is not a moral equivalence at play here, no matter your insinuations.

I'm not for a moment saying that either side is right; I think racial integration is important and to be sought. What I am saying is that I can understand how a black person in the America of the 60s could sincerely want to be away from white folk.

There's sources out there that quote Muhammad's father giving his critical opinion of the Nation of Islam and what they did to his son. I'm on my phone so slightly more difficult for me to find copy and paste this stuff but if you're your interested they are easy to find.

No parent likes everything their children do. I form my own opinion of an individual, though. His father's opinion is his own. I'm no fan of the NoI at all -- I think they're twats. But there's a reason why they at one time were popular amongst American blacks, and it behooves us to understand why, so that we can ensure their marginality.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Malcolm X was killed in 1965, my point was that Muhammad Ali probably had more to fear from them than any white person since Malcolm X was killed doing exactly what Muhammad Ali did later in his life.

And that itself speaks to Ali's courage, don't you agree? He cleaved to the right though it might endanger his life.

What, then, is your complaint?

[paulpablo]

Malcolm X was killed in 1965, my point was that Muhammad Ali probably had more to fear from them than any white person since Malcolm X was killed doing exactly what Muhammad Ali did later in his life.

And that itself speaks to Ali's courage, don't you agree? He cleaved to the right though it might endanger his life.

What, then, is your complaint?

Look over my posts and see what complaints I made and there's your answer.

[paulpablo]

Also I think you're trying to justify Muhammad's leanings towards segregation as being rational.

At the time of him being in the Nation of Islam he blamed white people for gambling, homosexuality, and drinking, and other things he believed to be evil.
Also as I said it wasn't just himself that he wanted to keep away from white people he wanted no inter racial breeding, coinciding with the rhetoric of the Nation of Islam.

[Thumpalumpacus]

And that itself speaks to Ali's courage, don't you agree? He cleaved to the right though it might endanger his life.

What, then, is your complaint?

Look over my posts and see what complaints I made and there's your answer.

The last was a rhetorical question. Your complaints, as I've already noted, are devalued by the absence of contextual understanding on your part.

I notice you ignored the first question. Not very surprised by that fact, though.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Also I think you're trying to justify Muhammad's leanings towards segregation as being rational.

That's because you are letting your emotions read for you. At no point have I ever said his feelings were rational -- I said that I could understand them. That's a different kettle of fish.

Perhaps you should read the words as they appear on your screen and avoid imputing motives? It will steer this conversation away from the ugliness that is looming.

At the time of him being in the Nation of Islam he blamed white people for gambling, homosexuality, and drinking, and other things he believed to be evil.
Also as I said it wasn't just himself that he wanted to keep away from white people he wanted no inter racial breeding, coinciding with the rhetoric of the Nation of Islam.

So what? We've all believed dumb things at one time or another. Are you so churlish you won't let a man grow larger than his past? How pathetic. You should hope that you aren't judged by the stupid things you held dear in your youth.

I could at this point take a shot out of your locker and lay out why I think you're approaching this discussion from your angle ... but I won't. I hope you're decent enough to return the favor.

[paulpablo]

What's written on the screen is that the justification for a black man, segregation from whites was mistreatment of blacks by whites.

That's what you said.

What I'm saying is that Muhammad Ali's justification was partly that, but also a lot of irrational claims about white people involving blaming them for alcohol, homosexuality and gambling.

[paulpablo]

Look over my posts and see what complaints I made and there's your answer.

The last was a rhetorical question. Your complaints, as I've already noted, are devalued by the absence of contextual understanding on your part.

I notice you ignored the first question. Not very surprised by that fact, though.

I don't know enough about his life to know how courageous he was against the Nation of Islam, so I can't comment on that.

[abaris]

What I'm saying is that Muhammad Ali's justification was partly that, but also a lot of irrational claims about white people involving blaming them for alcohol, homosexuality and gambling.

There's a lot of irrationality coming from different folks at different times. Some even go as far as claiming that entire peoples, races or religions are to blame for rape, murder and every evil in this world. Seems Ali wasn't alone in being irrational at some point in his life. Some people grow out of it, some don't. Evidence to be found IRL and on this very board.