Why do you actually believe in God?

[Veritas_Vincit]

May Zeus guide you on a straight path out of your pipe dream

[Excited Penguin]

I thought of it simply like of a power. But it was intoxicating at the same time, I never even questioned it. It was right there, in my mind, affecting every part of my being. Atheists rarely remember this, I imagine, if any of them had the same feeling as a believer, but I sometimes get this kind of memories at very odd times. This one I remembered a couple of months ago, after years of being an atheist. It was just like the time I remembered what it was like to be a very young child, the whole mental experience and everything. I even saw my reflection in the mirror in an odd way as long as I kept it up.

So anyway, being a theist (for me, at least) was an incredibly distinct experience. There's a sort of fog in your mind, like an aura or something, that you just think is out there somewhere, you just imagine pervading everything in your world and yet being apart from it. It's a very curious thing, really, and I wonder if everyone experiences faith or whatever that was differently. Needless to say, I'm incredibly glad I escaped it. It's more like a mental illness than I ever wish to experience.

[Veritas_Vincit]

You know those people who say there's no such thing as a stupid question? They're wrong.

Just make your point already.

Veritas Vincit, the truth is if you are a soul, it may very well be obvious that you are one.

"If I am a soul, then it would be obvious..." Yes, it probably would - which is how I know I'm not because it isn't even the last bit obvious. It runs counter to everything we know about human biology, especially neuroscience. And if you're one of these people who thinks that your metaphysical stuff is in any way on a par with real science, then next time you have an accident and get injured, rather than go to hospital you can just pray to your God or have someone do some Reiki on you.

And if you have an exact value to who you are, and you were given knowledge that you do have an exact value even though you don't what it is....that may lead to another question, how?

You seem to be stuck on this "exact value" thing - so you're saying a soul has an exact value? How do you measure that? What is the unit of measurement? Is your self esteem based on this idea? Like if you found out you didn't have some magical floaty soul that lived on forever and was really really special, you'd just lose the will to live?

We aren't physical in this respect, even if we assume there is no soul, the physical brain is creating a non-physical experience, and that merit type value we are, is not physical, and requires perception.

No - see, you are adding that value on. You are valuing it. It isn't some objective value, it's only valuable to you.

In this case, in the case you know you have an exact value, a hue, a merit type image that is either beautiful or ugly or somewhere inbetween, a rank, that is of an objective level, it will become obvious that an objective perception maintains that value.

This is what people commonly call a 'word salad.' I feel like this value system would be based on some kind of Pokemon trading card game....

We aren't that objective perception, nor can anything less then perfect perception judge and give us our exact value.

What is 'perfect perception'? I'm pretty sure you just made that up. This keeps coming back to being valued and judged - I think that's what this whole thing is for you.

This is one of the many reminders of the nature of ourselves and it's link to God, mainly that some being does see us.

What all the time? When we're taking a shit? When we're picking our nose? That's pretty creepy dude.

We aren't the perceiver of exactly that perpetual identity we have, the rank, the beauty or ugliness, the honor or disgrace, we are in....rather God knows it. Yet we have a distant scent in that we honor others, and we believe in praise of others.

Yeah at this point I'm pretty sure that 'God' is just a stand in for the people in your life you aren't getting enough acceptance from. You don't need other people to accept you or judge you dude! Just be yourself, stop seeking approval - fuck what other people think about you! See I know I'm mocking a lot of what you're saying right now but it's actually because you would be so much better off without it.

So ok you don't believe in exact value or free-will etc, but at the very least you should be humble enough to say that humans can know this about themselves.

I honestly don't know what you mean here, although it sounds a little condescending.

You said you don't give value to yourself, Imam Ali said "who knows his worth, knows his Lord, sufficient as ignorant one who does know his worth", and else where said "who knows himself knows his Lord"......

Yeah well I don't have a fucking Lord, I don't recognise anyone's right to call them selves my lord, and anyone who tries to assert or impose that kind of authority over me is my enemy.

[Sheed1980]

I know most people on this forum don't, for those who believe (or used to):

• How do you define 'God'? 
  
• Why do you (or did you) believe that this God exists? 
  

"Allah", Arabic for as we say "God" in English, is The Living, Eternal, and ONLY perfect, being, who is The Most Kind, The Compassionate and the Loving to all of His creatures. To Him belong the most beautiful names and attributes. He is also to be feared as no other being should be feared, being that no one is stricter in punishment than He, and He surely is promising to His word. However He is also The Most Gracious, Most Merciful being that ever was and ever will be, who is All-Pardoning and All-Forgiving, who forgives sins again and again and again, proving His mercy and love out performs His wrath. He randomly forgives any of His creatures for anything He desires except for "shirk", Arabic for associating partners in worship with Him, or disbelief in Him as Lord and creator of all things. He promises not to randomly forgive for this act. He will only forgive this if the one of His servants who performed this act, truly repents to Him and seeks His forgiveness. He knows we as humans sin and make mistakes, and we are nowhere at all near perfect. This is how He created us to be as His greatest creatures with free-will. So He tells if we truly repent to Him when we err and sin, and try to better ourselves, He WILL forgive us no matter how much it may happen. So if we recognize this and realize that He is as forgiving as He says He is, and we humble ourselves before Him as our ONLY, All-Forgiving God Almighty, He is ready to pick us up whenever we fall, and each of us as humans will fall over and over again. God tells us if we did not sin He would wipe us out entirely, and create a new creation that would sin and repent to Him when they did. He promises to us we were created to worship Him alone and created to dwell in the Hereafter for all eternity. Either in Paradise, which He created for us to have ALL THAT WE COULD POSSIBLY DESIRE AND ENJOY, or Hell-fire which is the most painful and humiliating punishment that can be given. So we decide, where we want to go in the Hereafter for eternity, where there is no death, by how we live in and worship in this temporary life we're in now. The greatest pleasure of Paradise that is promised to us, greater than anything we could desire or imagine, is being able to see the visual light of our creator God Almighty, who will be more a beautiful vision than anything we have ever seen or able to imagine. On the other hand the worst punishment of Hell, worst than any burning skin that will be renewed, or guzzling of scalding water hotter than molten brass, or any of its other physical punishments, will be that the people doomed to Hell will not be able to visualize their Lord, which will tear them apart emotionally and spiritually more than the terrible physical pain they shall receive. God tells us He is the All-Seeing, All-Hearing, All-Knowing One, Who NEVER forgets. He also tells us that He DOES NOT BEGET OFFSPRING. This is something that most (but not all)Christians say about God with Prophet Jesus pbuh, and some Jews(but not most) have said about God with Prophet Ezra pbuh. In biblical days, religious people referred to themselves as "sons of God". We as Muslims, to prevent confusion, call ourselves "sons of Adam" (pbuh). However in a SPIRITUAL SENSE we as Muslims have no problem with Christians, and Jews, and all other religious people saying they are spiritually God's children, meaning He created us, so in spirit we are all His children. Just as the sun, and moon, stars, angels, jinn, trees, oceans, and every other created thing of the entire universe is a spiritual child of God. Fine. No problem at all. The problem God has and we as Muslims disbelieve in is people saying God has BEGOTTEN offspring. The term begotten is a term that means to sexually sire and reproduce offspring. So for example, when Christians say Jesus pbuh, is God's only begotten son as stated in New Testament in John 3:16, they are saying God had sex with Mary, the mother of Jesus pbuh, and had a child. This causes Christians to say "that is blasphemous to say about God" and we as Muslims agree. They try to say they mean Jesus pbuh was God's ONLY UNIQUELY CREATED SON, because he only had a mother. We as Muslims honor the virgin birth of Jesus pbuh, but to say BEGOTTEN doesn't mean uniquely created it means sexually sired into reproduction, so don't say that. This proves falsehood in their statement to say BEGOTTEN means uniquely created because as John 3:16 says Jesus pbuh is God's ONLY BEGOTTEN or as they mean (UNIQUELY CREATED SON) this is not true because Adam pbuh was created without a mother or a father so Adam pbuh is more uniquely created than Jesus pbuh right? So this being the case if begotten means as they say "uniquely created", then John 3:16 is a false verse because Adam pbuh being more uniquely created than Jesus pbuh means Jesus is not God's ONLY uniquely created son. Also if they say Begotten as what it truly means this means Mary had sex with God and gave birth to Jesus pbuh, meaning Mary is not a virgin because she had sex. So either way they as Christians, try to use this verse of the Bible, it totally goes against God's true creation. God tells us in the Qur'an, His final scripture to mankind through His messenger Muhammad pbuh, in chapter 19 verse 35, among several other verses, "It is not befitting to God that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him. When He determines a matter He only says to it "Be" and it is." This is God showing He is The Only All-Powerful being there is and ever was. Also in chapter 112 God says "Say He is God The One, The Only-God The Eternal, The Absolute-He begets not nor was He begotten-And there is none like unto Him". If God begat offspring He would be lowering His standard to that of His creation. He would then leave the highest level of being making Himself equals with us as His creation. If He did this He wouldn't be God The Most High. He may as well forget things, get sick, get tired, make mistakes, die, eat and drink, sleep, and so many other things that we as humans, who are equal with each other but an innumerable amount of times lower than God, have to do as imperfect beings . So He tells us this to keep us on our level beneath Him and so He alone stays on His solitaire level above all things.
God has sent over 120,000 prophets/messengers to all of mankind for every nation of people that He created. This way the prophet He sent could relay the message to worship God alone in their native tongue, a language their people could understand. All prophets we considered "Muslims" which is simply Arabic for "One who submits their will to God". Prophets submitted to God's will so they were considered Muslims. Of course if they didn't speak Arabic they would have a term for Muslim in their own language. The thing that is different with Muhammad pbuh, from Jesus, and Moses, and all other prophets pbut all is they were only sent to their nation of people. For example Jesus and Moses pbut were sent to the nation of Israel. However Muhammad pbuh was sent for THE REST OF MANKIND FOR ALL TIME. This is why all Muslims are not only Arab, but African, European, Asian, North and South American, Australian and Antarctican. He was an Arab and spoke Arabic which is why we call ourselves Muslims, and call God Allah, and why the Qur'an is in Arabic as well. The Qur'an is also COMPLETELY THE WORD OF GOD ALONE. Unlike the Old and New Testaments (Bible), which do contain true revelations from God Himself, but also have additions to them added by mankind. God has promised to never let His truly revealed message be changed, replaced nor erased. But the words men have added have changed over time and been deleted and replaced etc. However it has been verified as true that not ONE SINGLE QUR'ANIC LETTER IN THE ORIGINALLY REVEALED ARABIC LANGUAGE has been moved, changed or erased in over 1400 years since the first revelation to the Prophet Muhammad pbuh in the year 610. This is how God sent His messengers with His scriptures to their people. He showed them His Almighty power through His prophets by showing miracles to their people related to the lifestyles they were living. For example Moses' pbuh people were into magic and illusion. So God alone, using His Almighty power allowed Moses to part the sea and turned his staff into a serpent which was truth outperforming the magic and trickery the people were so vain of their knowledge of. So God basically said to them "Hey u people who know so much about magic. What magic can u perform that can part the sea and change a rod back and forth from a serpent like I as ur God can which I have showed u through My messenger Moses?" U can't. So worship Me alone, follow My guidance through My prophet, and I will guide u to a way that is straight where I shall reward u with ANYTHING AND ALL THAT U DESIRE AND WISH FOR, and for all eternity. And of course I never fail in My promise." In Jesus' pbuh time, his people were vain of their knowledge of medicine and healing. So God with His power alone sent Jesus pbuh as His messenger, firstly born to a virgin woman, then who healed lepers, cured the blind and even raised the dead back to life. So God showed His Almighty power through His messenger basically saying "Hey u people that think u know so much about medicine and healing, what kind of medicine can u come up with that can impregnate a virgin woman, heal lepers, cure the blind and raise the dead as I can do as ur God, just as I've showed u through My messenger Jesus". U can't. So worship Me alone, follow My guidance through My prophet, and I will guide u to a way that is straight where I shall reward u with ANYTHING AND ALL THAT U DESIRE AND WISH FOR, and for all eternity. And of course I never fail in My promise." In Muhammad's pbuh time the Arabs considered themselves vainly knowledgeable in, at the time of the Qur'an's revelation; poetry, science, mathematics, astronomy, and linguistics. Aside from the poetic verses there are many scientific, mathematical, astronomical, and linguistic miracles of the Qur'an. God revealed it to Prophet Muhammad pbuh, who was a trustworthy man by ALL PEOPLE who knew him, who was also illiterate. This was God's method of proving that a man whom He chose Himself as prophet, and held in such high standard and the BEST GUIDE FOR ALL MANKIND TO FOLLOW. If he couldn't produce a powerful message as such, neither could any other non-prophetic being, regardless of how intelligent they may be. The miraculous knowledge that is contained in the Qur'an proves it could only have come from The Creator of all things, in the 7th century, a time period when technology and knowledge, like we have today did not yet exist with mankind. So with the miracles of the Qur'an God is basically saying to not only people of that time-period but also to all mankind "Hey u people that know so much about poetry, mathematics, science, astronomy, and linguistics. What kind of scripture can u produce like that of the Qur'an which I as ur God have produced alone and sent to u through My messenger Muhammad?" U can't. So worship Me alone, follow My guidance through My prophet, and I will guide u to a way that is straight where I shall reward u with ANYTHING AND ALL THAT U DESIRE AND WISH FOR, and for all eternity. And of course I never fail in My promise."
So a lot of people may feel because they can't see or feel something that it doesn't exist. We can't think in just a physical state of mind. We can't see oxygen but we know it exists because we breathe it right? So we have to realize that we are not only physical but also spiritual beings as well. There is One being Who determined us to be this way, whom we all must return to. He, being The Most Merciful forgives us our ills, blesses us for our good, and commands us to believe in Him, worship Him with no other partner, seek His guidance, and when we sin repent and seek His forgiveness and He promises to us a most magnificent reward us which He explains in detail. Which is an innumerable amount of times BETTER than anything we can possibly imagine. However He also out of His Most Merciful stature, warns us that if we don't believe and do righteous deeds, what punishment awaits us on the other side of death. Which will be worst than anything our finite minds can compass, which is also given in clear detail. He could just tell us "Do good and u will love the reward but don't do bad cause u will absolutely hate it" But again because He is Most Merciful He helps to paint us a picture with our finite human minds. These are many but definitely NOT ALL of the reasons why I actually believe in God and worship Him alone. I fear His wrath and punishment but I also pray for His forgiveness and mercy. He is The Most Forgiving, He loves forgiveness so I ask Him to forgive me my ills. And when we realize and know we have a Lord Who is more strict in punishment than anyone else could ever be, and also more merciful than anyone else could ever be this helps to put us in our places and say "God Almighty, my only Lord, You are above me and I am beneath You". God knows it is this way and when we as His creatures and servants show that we accept this and know it too, this pleases our Lord. And as I said before. He is The Only One who is All-Powerful so much to the point that when He determines a matter, He only says to it "Be" and it is. These are reasons why I actually believe in God.

[The Grand Nudger]

You're going to be the only person who's read that Sheed, assuming -anyone's- read it, as usual.

[Cyberman]

Here's the thing, Mystic. If someone wants to sell me a car, I'm going to need several basic things. I'm going to need to see its logbook, for one, plus the insurance documents. At the very least, I'm going to want to see the car. If the guy starts tapdancing around, firing up the Deepak Chopra generator and telling me I will see these things if I can only look within myself and will myself to believe, I'm going to suspect they might not have a car to sell me. Aren't I?

[Veritas_Vincit]

Sheed I doubt anyone's is going to read through that book you've posted. Could you reiterate in a more... Concise way?

[robvalue]

How many Allah points do you get per wall of text I wonder?

[Mystic]

@Stimbo 

A car is a material thing. Life and it's purpose, where else would you look other then yourself?  If God is linked to you, you have to look within yourself and say, do you know that. Do you know any link to God or links to God within yourself? That has to be the starting point. Even Quran if guidance is going to be achieved by it emphasizes "and (signs) in themselves, will they not see?", and "we will show them the signs in themselves and in the horizons till it becomes manifest he/it is the truth....."

Of course I do believe God has other ways of manifesting himself to those who love him and can appear to them in other ways...but that is besides the point.

The heart of the issue is the test of this life revolves how we respond to God and the call to have faith in him. 

Those who truly believe in God, everything else seems small in their eyes, while God's greatness overwhelms them.

To some people God is negligible and this while he is to be valued above all else. The degree of neglecting him and his signs and connections to him, has gone to that of rebellion and hate towards God's existence. Some people don't want God to exist, that is the degree they are rebellious against it.

God is truly beautiful, the source of beauty, the source of honor, the ultimate honor, the great one who is the source of greatness.

Just as you see yourself existing, you can witness God existing.

[The Grand Nudger]

I can't speak for Stimbo..but I certainly don't have any links to a god within myself.  I can't see any gods either.  

This, alone, is enough to relegate the claim to the trashbin. You've basically made the claim that -we- can all run a 100meter dash in 9 seconds. How hard do think it is to demonstrate that to be false, and is it really the sort of claim you'd hang allahs hat on? Either the claim needs to be modified to more accurately express your religious beliefs....or your religious beliefs are trivially and condescendingly untrue. Your call.