Why do the ritors ask for Justice?

[Pat Mustard]

This is idiotic on too many levels to count. Slavery was an institute in America before the USA even existed. And it certainly wasn't a black man owning the first slaves there. It was all kinds of people, ranging from the Spanish, the british, maybe the Dutch, but I'm not sure if they even had slaves.

It's also idiotic because it's the one off example. The one that stands out in the army of white slave owners - stands out in the way that if someone wants to make a point of tu quoque can resort to that example being made available by who knows who.

Plus its a damned lie, spread by racists and Confederacy defenders (yes, I know they're just a particular subset of racists, and I'm committing a tautology). The first documented slave was John Punch, who was brought to Virginia as an indentured servant and was sentenced to permanent slavery in 1640 when he ran away with two other (European) indentured servants*. In 1641 Massachusetts implemented the first slavery law in the colonies, largely written by then Governor John Winthrop who was a slave owner himself by this time. Other colonies in the meantime passed similar laws establishing slavery as legal.

Johnson didn't acquire his 250 acres by buying out the contracts of five indentured servants (4 white, one black) until 1651, and the civil case which proclaimed Casor his slave didn't happen until 1655 or 1656.

If you want to read the details on most of what I've got, you can start here. It's amazing how quickly a google search will debunk the lies and propoganda of racists and their ilk.

*Incidentally this showed that from the genesis racism was built into the American slave system; while Punch, a black man, was enslaved for his "crime" his two companions, both Europeans, were given four extra years servitude.

Oh, I forgot to mention, why do they use the picture (probably photograph) of a 19th century man to represent a 17th century man? Surely they're not idiot enough to think that fashion didn't change radically over a period of two hundred years.

[abaris]

It's amazing how quickly a google search will debunk the lies and propoganda of racists and their ilk.

I didn't feel the need to do it, since the title reads "The first slave owner in America". Which is utter bullshit, since America predates the USA by 3 centuries. At least by European standards and being called that way.

[Faith No More]

---

It's real simple sport, Do what the cop say when he says it. It's not a debate, you don't have the right to protest, you don't get an appeal durning an arrest. That is what court is for.

The cop's primary objective is to have complete control of the situation and all parties involved. So the first thing a cop must do is identify an potential dangers. For instance someone acting nervous for any reason in a car. the cop is not to try and figure out why, just remove the nervous person from a potential danger in the car. so the person is asked to step out. if the person does anything besides step out, again primary mandate takes over control the situation. the officer must escalate the situation, any reaction besides submission results in some type of physical force or restraint by the officer. if the person resists or fights back again the officer must continue to escilate the situation first to be on the surviving side of a violent encounter, so the situation is escalated again. No matter where a person is in the escalation of a fight cops are trained to be one step ahead.

You are at a zero confrontation level, a cop is at be ready he may make a move.

you are at offended, the cop must be cock and ready for a fight.

You are thinking about where or not you can take this guy (even if you are going through the motions of compliance,) the cop is at applying non leathal force/disabling you.

You take a swing and depending on what action he has already taken, he shoots.

Those who see unfairness in a police officers actions simply do not understand the dangers of the job nor the mindset/how they are trained to work.. In a douche bag society everyone demands to be treated to who they are as individuals. unfortunately when dealing with criminals, everyone must be treated the same. Meaning everyone is treated like a criminal until a safety threshold can be establish by the officer. When all potential threats have been neutralized and the cop has control of the situation, it can only be then that you can be treated as an individual again.

Approach as an alpha, demand control and fight for it.. get shot.

If this was a race thing then why is it black cops shoot black people? Why is it white cops shoot and kill white people?

As far as protesters are concern they can do whatever they want within the confines of the law.

Everyone is treated like a criminal until a safety threshold can be established?

If that officer is approaching suspects in criminal activity, yes.

 So much for that due process you've been pissing and moaning about,, never mind the presumption of innocence.  

Apprehension, detention, and questioning is all apart of due process sport. Each aspect of "due process" has it's own protocols. No where in the constitution does it say 'the presumption of innocence must be maintained during a hostile arrest.' Why? because resisting arrest in of itself is a crime, a crime the officers themselves witness. Our laws mandate that we submit to apprehension and detention if just cause has been established. If you resist you forfeit your rights and presumption of innocence concerning your resisting arrest, which then can be used to detain you lawfully, even if you are presumed innocent of the other crime.

Submit to authority or face execution.

 Do not threaten or act in a threatening manner or face execution absolutely.

Do you really have this poor of a grasp on the founding principles of this country, or do you just act like a dipshit for fun?

Maybe a little from column a and a little from column b.

The cognitive dissonance must be killing you, because you're sitting here arguing for two separate standards.

Actually no, because while I don't consider myself a genius my mind is indeed big enough to understand how each one of the parts of 'due process' works, and how they collectively work together. (even though parts can seemingly contradict one another.) while someone arguing from a point of emotion might only take one element of due prossess and wrong think this one element represent each stage of the law and how it is up held/executed.

Most 'feely' (stupid people) believe being arrested is the same as being convicted. so they fight their arrests or demand that elements and protections of the prosecution phase be extended to them before or durning an arrest.

Here's the thing once you qualify for an arrest it's over. a smart person shuts down ans saves everything for trial. as for a lawyer. But instead stupid people try and barter their way out or fight their way out. Most stupid people know bartering their way out is a legal trick used to gather evidence to further incriminate themselves. so fearing arrest like a conviction stupid people only have one real alternative. They have to fight their way out. even if they do not go toe to toe the resist which is tantamount (legal speaking) to fighting which just compounds the problem which often times escalates the whole issue...

 Rioters should respect due process,

Indeed.

but if you fail to do exactly what a cop tells you, it's okay for him to take your life.

depending on circumstance... more or less yes.

 Never mind the fact that the guy in Tulsa was shot with his hands in the air.

you mean the guy high on pcp, who had his hands in the air at one moment but at the time of the actual shot was reaching down?

 Remember, kids, submit to authority absolutely or face death, but don't forget that the state is the devil.  I've never met anyone in my life that completely compartmentalizes their beliefs in the way you do.  It's just amazing.

Then you actively surround yourself with morons, and do not seek a higher understanding of anything outside of what you think you know.

And then you have the audacity to call people that want a country where the police treat us fairly and equally a "douchebag society?"  Again, I really have to believe that you just troll with this stuff, because I'm extremely skeptical that anyone can be this fucking stupid but still be able to use a computer.

Yes.

Why? because I don't want people up holding the law to be shot or even hurt because they are mandated to treat a guy i caught breaking into my house the same way the cop treats me the victim.

Do you not understand that under the idea of equal/good treatment that real bad guys would be given opportunity to hurt or kill police officers or even innocent people?

We do need to be treated the same and in fact we are if suspected of a crime. And that is with the officer's safety coming first. Why? because the guilty will not have a chance to hurt the officers and the innocent will not have cause to resist if we all understand the SEPARATE natures and roles the police department has verse the courts.

---

So, what you're saying is that it's okay innocence people get killed as long as it keeps the bad guys at bay.  Spoken like a true authoritarian.  I suppose it shouldn't be surprising at all coming from someone who's whole life is defined by submission.  

I take it then that you entirely disagree with well-known legal phrase "It's better for 10 guilty men to go free than 1 innocent to be convicted."  I suppose you probably also think Jesus is protecting you from being on the receiving end of injustice.

[Drich]

"white oppression""

Fuck off.

Not white oppression.  Oppression from the white power structure.

Fact:  Black people face oppression in things like less education opportunities, higher poverty rates and higher incarceration rates, all leftover relics of policies enacted since the slaves were freed.

Fact:  The power structure responsible for said oppression is predominately white.

Thus, oppression from the white power structure.

So says white guilt.

The truth is far more oppertunities are afforded to average and even below average intellegence minorities now adays.

I as a white man's child would have been given a certificate of completion (you showed up everyday but could not pass the courses) not even a high school diploma. Not even did I graduate (with a 3.5/retard classes) I qualified for a scholarship (because I was not white and not enough minorities bothered to even show up everyday/which is all I did.)

I once employed a man (a while back) who has a diploma for a 4 year ivy league school (Once of the top three everyone mentions when asked) who.... lets say should have not been given the oppertunity based on merrit. He was given more because he like me simply showed up.

Now I took my HS diploma, but refused to take a spot from anyone deserving a spot in that school based on their grades, that would have been otherwise offered to me because i was not white.

This experience is further compounded by my 10 years spent working with innercity children. School work was supposed to be apart of all of the work i did. bottom line, there is no interest in education from the children or parents. why? the sense I got from most people was that 'education' was not apart of their culture. it was not what was important to them in their day to day lives nor the thing that primarily held their interest. Some saw it as a means of control..

What we need to understand is there will always be a great divide in this country between blacks and whites concerning education. opportunity is not the reason. It's because there are two different cultures with two different world views concerning education fighting for the same kids.

Now unless we can nut up and take a page from histroy and subgate all residence of this country and unite them as one people, there will always be a divide because we embrace our cultural differences now, and as a direct result you will have some people smarter than others.

[Faith No More]

....So black people did not come from tribes now???

Here's the unique thing about black people, we can see a social cultural evolution being lived out in certain parts of the world. from a literal stone age existence to life as a modern man. why would it be wrong to reference any of this? is it not truth? is it not happening right now? Why are you trying to suppress this cultural diversity? why are you trying to pretend that black people are homogenized as your race is?

We all come from tribes, asshole, but there is no history of white people being systematically denigrated with terms like "tribal" and "un-evolved" to imply they are actually a sub-species. I wonder why that is considering we all actually come from tribes?

[RobertE]

That is why I asked you to ask the question "How many "Americans", do I know", would be more appropriate. In which case, none.

Seriously? None? Or is there some joke I'm not aware of hidden somewhere?

You must have gone out of your way not to meet any Americans. But here's you assuming all kinds about them.

No, I avoid all Anglo-saxons whilst living in France. If I meet a few then start talking English, it will seriously affect my job, since my job depends on me speaking French and writing French 100% of the time. So, if I saw a WASP in France, I would speak French deliberately just to get them off my back.

You spoke up to your father in law? Who hasn't done that already? You'll have to do better than that.

Did I mention that I'm 5'5" and 145 pounds dripping wet while he is a very hot-tempered 6'3", 275 pounds and, you know, my fucking boss?

But hey, keep focusing on those irrelevant details.

My father and cousin were the same as you, however, they have Celtic blood and are or were known for their vicious tempers. My mother measured 5ft 0 inches and weighed about 35-40 kgs at most and she scared the shit out of me.

[Drich]

Not white oppression.  Oppression from the white power structure.

Fact:  Black people face oppression in things like less education opportunities, higher poverty rates and higher incarceration rates, all leftover relics of policies enacted since the slaves were freed.

Fact:  The power structure responsible for said oppression is predominately white.

Thus, oppression from the white power structure.

Bold is mine.

1. Less education opportunities....lol!!! Tell me, how come the Indians from India, the Koreans and Chinese are successful? Is it because they are motivated, is it because of their culture to work hard for a living to provide for the family? Higher poverty rates? Again, if a father cannot assume his role as a parent, he shouldn't be sticking his dick in any woman he wants, only to shoot off and impregnate 5 others.....Eazy-E was a good example of someone who promiscuous until his demise. Higher incarceration rates? Again, respect your parents (if the father is there), do your homework, try to make new friends instead of being pressured into mixing with only black people. Try to get to the top. As for slavery, there is only one person to blame for the start of slavery in the United States:

This exactly!!!

Koreans Indians and other sub-minorities excel in academic endeavors because in their cultures a premium is placed on education. The children are brow beaten with books till they excel. again this is a cultural divide

Not every culture is the same as a result when comparing cultures you will note strengths in different areas in life.

The one great remaining white sin (born out of white guilt) is to treat everyone as a fellow white.

The problem with that? Not everyone wants to be white. That means sometimes this anti white behavior manifests itself by casting off certain ideologies.. for instance the importance of a formal education.

[Athene]

I'll take take your massive dump of a diversion as a resounding NO, then.

You don't actually know any.

That is why I asked you to ask the question "How many "Americans", do I know", would be more appropriate. In which case, none. You have difficulty in understanding English. I told you earlier, grab a dictionary and look up the work "Irony", or why not "Sarcasm", that is much simpler for you to understand isn't it?

The problem wasn't my English. Your lack of clarification and proper punctuation was the issue.

And I don't need to pick up a dictionary to understand the meaning of the words irony or sarcasm, or to know that your sentence below is an example of neither.

RobertE
Wrong!!! How many "Americans", do you know, would be the question. In that case, none that I am aware of.

[Faith No More]

So says white guilt.

The truth is far more oppertunities are afforded to average and even below average intellegence minorities now adays.

I as a white man's child would have been given a certificate of completion (you showed up everyday but could not pass the courses) not even a high school diploma. Not even did I graduate (with a 3.5/retard classes) I qualified for a scholarship (because I was not white and not enough minorities bothered to even show up everyday/which is all I did.)

I once employed a man (a while back) who has a diploma for a 4 year ivy league school (Once of the top three everyone mentions when asked) who.... lets say should have not been given the oppertunity based on merrit. He was given more because he like me simply showed up.

Now I took my HS diploma, but refused to take a spot from anyone deserving a spot in that school based on their grades, that would have been otherwise offered to me because i was not white.

This experience is further compounded by my 10 years spent working with innercity children. School work was supposed to be apart of all of the work i did. bottom line, there is no interest in education from the children or parents. why? the sense I got from most people was that 'education' was not apart of their culture. it was not what was important to them in their day to day lives nor the thing that primarily held their interest. Some saw it as a means of control..

What we need to understand is there will always be a great divide in this country between blacks and whites concerning education. opportunity is not the reason. It's because there are two different cultures with two different world views concerning education fighting for the same kids.

Now unless we can nut up and take a page from histroy and subgate all residence of this country and unite them as one people, there will always be a divide because we embrace our cultural differences now, and as a direct result you will have some people smarter than others.

Oh, yeah, we keep trying to educate those black people, but they just don't want it. Are you fucking for real? It's like you guys are trying to prove how racist you are.

The fact is, my wife actually works with many inner-city black kids from Detroit to help them get college degrees, and nothing could be further from the truth for these kids. They have also gotten a HS diploma, but many of them can't even score higher than a 15 on the ACT. Because none of their teachers gave a shit if they learned and just passed them to keep the graduation rates up, and not only is their school system so poor that it once considered closing 1/2 of all of their schools, they're often the victims of corrupt politicians that steal the money meant for their school supplies.

But, hey, I guess if they just wanted it more, it wouldn't be a problem, would it?

[brewer]

Protesters are seeking justice. 

Rioters are probably not. They're opportunists for the most part; plain and simple. 
Their primary interests are their own.

People just can't be bothered to acknowledge the distinction between the two, I guess.

Thena, you got it right.

Protesters are supporting positions. Riots are supporting emotions (primarily negative).

What I find interesting is that the protests/riots are almost always one group speaking out against the actions of another separate group. Rarely are they protesting/rioting about actions that are coming from within their own group. Anybody seen any protests/riots about the Chicago murder rate? Nope. I'll I've heard is "what a shame".

Don't get me wrong. Anytime that there is killing that comes from some one/thing that is in a position of authority or power need to be questioned/investigated.