The stupidity of sin

[FatAndFaithless]

The hell does this have to do with the topic at hand.

[robvalue]

It's just Huggy playing games rather than addressing my point.

Pick any damn thing at all you currently believe or don't believe. Then "choose" to change your mind, so you are now in the opposite position, without any further evidence or anything.

If you can actually sincerely do this, you're extremely unusual and probably dangerous.

[robvalue]

You can change your mind over time of course, or because you've thought things through. But you can't change your mind about your beliefs just because you want to.

Seriously though, if you can, I'd love an example. Something sensible and real, not some ridiculous corner case.

[Huggy Bear]

The point is one can belive or disbelive anything they want...

MAKING BELIEF A CHOICE!

[Huggy Bear]

You can change your mind over time of course, or because you've thought things through. But you can't change your mind about your beliefs just because you want to.

Seriously though, if you can, I'd love an example. Something sensible and real, not some ridiculous corner case.

So there are no examples of theists becoming atheists or vice versa?

[The Grand Nudger]

I don't know, I don't have that ability.  It;s hard to believe you when you say that we all I have an ability that I've never been able to leverage, or to imagine that I'm the only one who doesn't have it. In fact, I couldn't make myself believe you if I tried.

[FatAndFaithless]

Nnnno...that's not really how it works. I couldn't just choose right now to suddenly believe in god, for example. Beliefs aren't just lightswitches in your head that you flip between voluntarily.

[FatAndFaithless]

You can change your mind over time of course, or because you've thought things through. But you can't change your mind about your beliefs just because you want to.

Seriously though, if you can, I'd love an example. Something sensible and real, not some ridiculous corner case.

So there are no examples of theists becoming atheists of vice versa?

Of course there are.  I'm one of those examples.  But it's not because I just 'decided' to stop believing in god.  I investigated, heard arguments, searched for evidence, and realized that I was incapable of believing in god anymore.  The "choice" was me seeking further investigation, but there was no volition involved when I stopped believing in god.

[robvalue]

Right. Become an atheist right now Huggy, for an hour. Then go back to being a theist.

Why am I bothering.

[The Grand Nudger]

So there are no examples of theists becoming atheists of vice versa?

Of course there are.  I'm one of those examples.  But it's not because I just 'decided' to stop believing in god.  I investigated, heard arguments, searched for evidence, and realized that I was incapable of believing in god anymore.  The "choice" was me seeking further investigation, but there was no volition involved when I stopped believing in god.

As another example  I have never believed.  I've read a great deal of religious fiction (  )....it's a genre I particularly enjoy.   I did make the choice to seek further investigation, from a state of un-belief towards a state of belief, and ended up in a state of disbelief instead.  Similarly, the changes in state were not volitional.  Though all that "honest seeking" was.  Sure,  a person can impugn my character or call me a liar, just to cut off  that pass, but at no point will doing so magically grant me this claimed ability...which I do not possess.

It's a non-starter.