I am a theist, what do you think of my proof for God existing?

[Asmodee]

Reactions to my proposal for atheists to contemplate on how their papa and mama caused them to come to existence and life:

Reactions to my proposal for atheists to try simple things like proving the nail has an inventor:

This perfectly shows the pure idiocy of your argument right here.  Why would I need to prove nails have an inventor?  This is common knowledge which NOBODY disputes, even you.  Why would I have to prove to you something you already accept?  Because you want to put your fantasy on equal ground with unquestioned reality.  They ARE NOT on equal ground.

If God is real, magic is real.  You want to prove God is real then SHOW ME SOME MAGIC!  It's that damned simple.  Cast a magic spell to bring back a dead person and THEN you'll have something.

EDIT: You know what?  I'm getting bored of this so from now on my responses are going to be the same as your arguments.  I'm just going to cut and paste my very first response to you every time you post more bullshit.  Apparently if I repeat it over and over again there's a pretty good chance it will eventually sink in.

[Cyberman]

Okay, tell me why you find it so difficult and even impossible to prove God exists.

Why would we want to prove that? That's your bag, not mine.

[Edwardo Piet]

There is no such thing as God. "God" is defined to be superior to reality and since that's impossible God's existence is also impossible.

[Simon Moon]

I have no confidence that you will actually respond to any of my points on this thread, but here goes again.

Okay, atheists, starting with Simon Moon, why do you find it so difficult or even impossible?

Try proving that the nail has an inventor, you find that difficult or even impossible?

Try it, I challenge all of you atheists: all you have to do is to know that the nail is not self-made, but it was invented by an entity with intelligence - as simple as that.

Oh, bloody hell...

I can find countless documents on the invention and the history of the nail. Bronze nails have been found in ancient Egypt dating back to 3400 BCE, with obvious forging and hammer marks.

There are zero examples of nails occurring naturally. No nail trees, bushes, vines, etc.

Okay, tell me why you find it so difficult and even impossible to prove God exists.

How am I supposed to know if it is possible or not possible to prove a god exists?

But the 'evidence' (including your 'proof) to support the existence of a god is not even close to being in the same realm as the evidence for nails, that I am the biological offspring of my biological parents, or that noses exist.

I can't speak for all atheists, but my atheism is a provisional position, not a dogmatic one. As soon as the case for the existence of a god, or gods, meets its burden of proof, I will no longer be an atheist.

But your flawed 'proof' does not even get close.


I apologize, but I used some concepts that use basic logic. I don't expect you to get them, because you are unable to accurately explain why fallacies are detrimental to logical arguments.

[Kernel Sohcahtoa]

Thanks for your post Simon Moon

As soon as the case for the existence of a god, or gods, meets its burden of proof, I will no longer be an atheist.

Could you please elaborate on what I have quoted above? Thanks

[Mariosep]

Dear everyone here, thanks for your presence and contribution to this thread of mine.

Now, I am so glad that I have chanced upon this web forum of Atheistforums.org, because the powers that be here are real genuine 100% gentlemen intellectuals who are to date adherents to impartiality, nonpartisanship.

More theists should come here, so that one day this forum will be the home of theists who really care to write their thoughts here without any sword pressed to their neck by the forum’s founders and owners and operators though they are atheists.
_________________

The way I see it, and it is a reinforcement of my finding way back when I started to study atheists' ways and means of thinking, atheists make investigation on the issue God exists or not: so difficult and even impossible to themselves, because they have armed themselves with all kinds of ways and means: as to NOY think on truths, facts, logic, and the history of ideas in order to NOT be relevant to the issue at all.

Here is an experiment, tell me atheists what is your information on the concept of God as known with certainty by one Mariosep?

Mariosep
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RE: I am a theist, what do you think of my proof for God existing?
9 hours ago

Dear atheists, I find proving God is so simple, and I show it simple in my OP, click on page 1 to read my proof in the OP; here I will summarize it quickly:

I posit the concept of God, namely, in concept God is first and foremost the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning.

With the concept in my mind I proceed to the objective reality of existence and I find countless instances of causation.

All of the instances of causation are evidence of God's presence and action.

Therefore God exists as the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning – the evidence shows it to be so.

To prove God exists is as simple as proving the nail has an inventor, I mean the nail that we hammer on to bind two pieces of wood together, that it has an inventor – of course if you will, we can talk also about the nail in our fingers and toes.

Proving God exists is also simple with us knowing  that babies are caused by their papas and mamas, and that fact brings the intelligent mind of man to infer ultimately to the existence and action of God, in concept as first and foremost the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning.

Okay, atheists, starting with Simon Moon, why do you find it so difficult or even impossible?

Try proving that the nail has an inventor, you find that difficult or even impossible?

Try it, I challenge all of you atheists: all you have to do is to know that the nail is not self-made, but it was invented by an entity with intelligence - as simple as that.


Okay, tell me why you find it so difficult and even impossible to prove God exists.

[Tonus]

So... your response to the complaint that you repeat yourself is to... quote your inital post again?

[pocaracas]

Here, mario.... I answer it for you again:

Hello Mario!
We're going to have some fun with words! Ready?

This is my proof for God existing.

To call some words "proof" is a bit rash, don't you think?

1. Formulate the information of the concept of God, thus:
"God in concept is first and foremost the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning."

I don't get why you didn't stop at "universe", but alright... let's go along with that...

2. Look for instances of causation in reality outside of concepts in our mind.

Not a solipsist, I see....
I think you need to define causation, here.
What is an "instance of causation"? The moment when something causes something else? When something with energy imparts some of that energy on something else?
But where does all the previously existing energy come from? What caused the energy to exist?
Remember Lavoisier? "Nothing is lost, nothing is created, everything is transformed."
Nothing that we see is a creation of energy... only transforming one form of energy into another.... and energy is like mass, you know E=mc^2, right?

So.... "causation"... what does it mean?

3. We find countless examples of causation in reality outside of concepts in our mind.

Do we?... maybe...
If by causation you mean energy transfer, yes.
If by causation you mean energy generation, no.

Now that those two things have been properly distinguished, let's continue.

4. From the countless instances of causation in reality, we infer to the existence of a first and ultimate cause.

We do?
No we don't. Why would we do such a rash, potentially dishonest, thing?

Can your little head not wrap itself around the concept of infinity? Infinite time backwards... it's not impossible, but it's difficult to grasp, I'll grant you that.
Or the concept of timelessness, a state of affairs in which time is non-existent... actions do not exist, causation is meaningless. Personally, I don't like this possibility... but it can't be ruled out.

5. We find that the first and ultimate cause of all instances of causation in reality corresponds to our information on the concept of God, namely, the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning.

- Get ready to load up the concept of God with iron-age tales!!

6. Conclusion: God exists in concept as first and foremost the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning.

Wasn't that number 5? Repetition serves no purpose, here...

What do you think about my proof for the existence of God?

Well, I think it's lacking on substance... an actual god, you know?
Also, it could do with a bit more of an open mind - there are countless possibilities for how the Universe came about and most don't posit the existence of a special conscious entity to do it.

And finally, words matter. Words with multiple meanings are dangerous in the wrong hands.
Words like: causation, truth, belief and theory can be twisted along an argument to mean something different from what they mean at the start of the argument... take care with those.
Keep your eyes open for those word traps.

[Simon Moon]

The way I see it, and it is a reinforcement of my finding way back when I started to study atheists' ways and means of thinking, atheists make investigation on the issue God exists or not: so difficult and even impossible to themselves, because they have armed themselves with all kinds of ways and means: as to NOY think on truths, facts, logic, and the history of ideas in order to NOT be relevant to the issue at all.

If you consider: logic, evidence, the correct application of skepticism, rationality, reasoned argument, to be "arming myself all kinds of ways and means" to not accept your claim that a god exists, then I am fine with that.

It is not our fault that the existence of your god does not hold up to any of the above listed "ways and means".

Here is an experiment, tell me atheists what is your information on the concept of God as known with certainty by one Mariosep?

As you have repeatedly posted it ad nauseum, the concept of god that posit is;

"God in concept is first and foremost the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning."

And yes, I agree that it is a concept, and nothing more.

As soon as you are able to actually provide demonstrable and falsifiable evidence, and valid and sound logic to support it, let us know.

[Primordial Bisque]

There is no such thing as God. "God" is defined to be superior to reality and since that's impossible God's existence is also impossible.

"God" would have also needed to exist prior to existence in order to create...existence.