How literally should we take the Qur'an ?

[WinterHold]

I am finding myself in a bit of a maze when trying to "prove" the inaccurate statements in the Quran. You often hear Muslims claim how their book contains scientific knowledge that could not have possibly been discovered in that age, ergo some superior intelligence must have dictated it.

The problem when dealing with this issue often is the constant argument that the translation is simply not good enough. English simply cannot encompass the complexity of the Arabic language. Some words have multiple meanings and therefore a certain verse can mean a lot of things. Added to that, is the ever lasting argument of "you are taking it too literally". That verse does not mean that literally, it is merely a poetic expression to show a truth.

No; use "common sense"; the verses do mean what they say exactly.
For example, this verse:

Sura 16
( 15 )   And He has cast into the earth firmly set mountains, lest it shift with you, and [made] rivers and roads, that you may be guided,

Take it "literally". Mountains increase earth's mass. If they don't exist, earth's mass would decrease. Disturb the mass, and you'll disturb the orbit of the planet.

As for your post; define "before" and "after". Time is irrelevant; scientifically irrelevant unless you specifiy an anchor point like "the big bang" or "the sun". 

The initial creation might've been abstract; or even a simple "instruction". Then came the actual execution which took billion of years.

It's very possible. Athiestforums.org exists like this: it's a set of instructions, that get executed to produce what you see.
Just like our universe; written then executed.

"Fate" and "Destiny" and "Meant to Be" mean exactly this. 

So.....Which came before; really? earth, sun ?? you're asking the wrong question.

[The Grand Nudger]

That's talking that verse literally?  

[paulpablo]

I am finding myself in a bit of a maze when trying to "prove" the inaccurate statements in the Quran. You often hear Muslims claim how their book contains scientific knowledge that could not have possibly been discovered in that age, ergo some superior intelligence must have dictated it.

The problem when dealing with this issue often is the constant argument that the translation is simply not good enough. English simply cannot encompass the complexity of the Arabic language. Some words have multiple meanings and therefore a certain verse can mean a lot of things. Added to that, is the ever lasting argument of "you are taking it too literally". That verse does not mean that literally, it is merely a poetic expression to show a truth.

No; use "common sense"; the verses do mean what they say exactly.
For example, this verse:

Sura 16
( 15 )   And He has cast into the earth firmly set mountains, lest it shift with you, and [made] rivers and roads, that you may be guided,

Take it "literally". Mountains increase earth's mass. If they don't exist, earth's mass would decrease. Disturb the mass, and you'll disturb the orbit of the planet.

As for your post; define "before" and "after". Time is irrelevant; scientifically irrelevant unless you specifiy an anchor point like "the big bang" or "the sun". 

The initial creation might've been abstract; or even a simple "instruction". Then came the actual execution which took billion of years.

It's very possible. Athiestforums.org exists like this: it's a set of instructions, that get executed to produce what you see.
Just like our universe; written then executed.

"Fate" and "Destiny" and "Meant to Be" mean exactly this. 

So.....Which came before; really? earth, sun ?? you're asking the wrong question.

Have We not made the earth as a bed, and the mountains as pegs?

This is a different translation of the same verse and I saw this being used as a miracle in Islamic forums before.

Muslims want to believe it so they tag anything to verses.  The mountains are pegs stopping the earth shifting (Which they don't)  or the gullible Muslim mind makes up something about the mass of the earth or some other bullshit.

[Cyberman]

Take it "literally". Mountains increase earth's mass. If they don't exist, earth's mass would decrease.

Utter bollocks.

[Mister Agenda]

If you're arguing Islam, your literalism should be comparable to the literalism of the person you're arguing with. It does no good to moan about the Koran's ideas of how the sun sets and rises with someone who has already reconciled themselves to accept modern astronomy despite it. You need to get a feel for how literal they are, so you're not wasting your or their time.

Frankly, if a Muslim cherry-picks and interprets the Koran until they're fine with modernity and LGBTQ people and science; to me there's not much to argue about. I wish there were a lot more of those Muslims. They're still wrong, can't know that the Koran is true, and have no convincing evidence that their deity is real; but I have much bigger fish to fry than bare-bones Muslims.

[pocaracas]

Take it "literally". Mountains increase earth's mass. If they don't exist, earth's mass would decrease. Disturb the mass, and you'll disturb the orbit of the planet.

Wait!
Did you really say this?!
Mountains increase Earth's mass?!!?!!?!!!!

Do you accept that the Earth is a planet, roughly shaped like a sphere, travelling through the vacuum of space?

Where does mass come from to increase Earth's? (Meteors are all I can see)
Barring the occasional rocket and probe that humans send out, how does mass leave the Earth?

[Pat Mustard]

I am finding myself in a bit of a maze when trying to "prove" the inaccurate statements in the Quran. You often hear Muslims claim how their book contains scientific knowledge that could not have possibly been discovered in that age, ergo some superior intelligence must have dictated it.

The problem when dealing with this issue often is the constant argument that the translation is simply not good enough. English simply cannot encompass the complexity of the Arabic language. Some words have multiple meanings and therefore a certain verse can mean a lot of things. Added to that, is the ever lasting argument of "you are taking it too literally". That verse does not mean that literally, it is merely a poetic expression to show a truth.

No; use "common sense"; the verses do mean what they say exactly.
For example, this verse:

Sura 16
( 15 )   And He has cast into the earth firmly set mountains, lest it shift with you, and [made] rivers and roads, that you may be guided,

Take it "literally". Mountains increase earth's mass. If they don't exist, earth's mass would decrease. Disturb the mass, and you'll disturb the orbit of the planet.

That's all well and good, except for one inconvenient fact. The sum of the earth's mass contained within the crust, of which mountains make up a small part, adds up to 0.5% of the whole. So mountain mass does pretty much zip for maintaining earth's orbit or atmosphere.

Of course that is all assuming that your personal interpretation is what the writers of the qu'ran meant, which it is not, and that the qu'ran is also the received word of god, which it is also not. The qu'ran is simply the most recent interpretation of a bunch of creation mythologies first told in the first cities emerging out of the Fertile Crescent, and is as ignorant of reality as the earlier mythologies.

[Simon Moon]

No; use "common sense"; the verses do mean what they say exactly.
For example, this verse:

Sura 16
( 15 )   And He has cast into the earth firmly set mountains, lest it shift with you, and [made] rivers and roads, that you may be guided,

Take it "literally". Mountains increase earth's mass. If they don't exist, earth's mass would decrease. Disturb the mass, and you'll disturb the orbit of the planet.

As for your post; define "before" and "after". Time is irrelevant; scientifically irrelevant unless you specifiy an anchor point like "the big bang" or "the sun". 

The initial creation might've been abstract; or even a simple "instruction". Then came the actual execution which took billion of years.

It's very possible. Athiestforums.org exists like this: it's a set of instructions, that get executed to produce what you see.
Just like our universe; written then executed.

"Fate" and "Destiny" and "Meant to Be" mean exactly this. 

So.....Which came before; really? earth, sun ?? you're asking the wrong question.

Do you feel the same about these verses? Do these "mean what they say exactly"?

“I shall cast terror into the hearts of the infidels. Strike off their heads, strike off the very tips of their fingers.” Quran 8:12

“Let not the unbelievers think they will ever get away. They have not the power so to do. Muster against them all the men and cavalry at your command, so that you may strike terror into the enemy of Allah and your enemy…” Quran 8:59-60

“When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them.” Quran 9:5

“Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate.” Quran 9:73

“Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them. Know that God is with the righteous.” Quran 9:123

“Lord…Give us victory over the unbelievers.” Quran 2:286

“Lord…give us victory over the unbelievers.” Quran 3:147

[WinterHold]

[pocaracas]