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RE: The Cake Case Revisited
October 4, 2017 at 7:42 am
(This post was last modified: October 4, 2017 at 7:42 am by The Grand Nudger.)
Yall realize that she's not going to see whats so shitty about her proposal, right? She thinks that religious bigotry is an indicator of strongly held morals, and what could be wrong with that? Why are you being so mean to her?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: The Cake Case Revisited
October 4, 2017 at 11:42 am
(October 4, 2017 at 4:02 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (October 4, 2017 at 3:54 am)Alex K Wrote: I'm not sure. But apart from the legal issue, don't you find yourself sounding a bit absurd with your above examples? Or were you going for satire and I missed it?
I don't see why my example is absurd. The point is a business owner should be allowed to say no to any particular service that goes against their morals. The law can't really say "well, you're allowed to say no for this scenario, but not for this other one." You're either allowed to say no, or you aren't. If you're not legally allowed to say no to making a cake for a gay wedding, you're not going to be legally allowed to say no to any other occassion either.
Well the problem there is that in the past people were allowed to refuse service and they chose to refuse to serve black people.
Its just a part of general discrimination and is a bad thing.
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
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RE: The Cake Case Revisited
October 4, 2017 at 12:09 pm
That's why I differentiated between refusing a particular service (making a cake for a cause you vehemently disagree with), and refusing service to a person because of who they are.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
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RE: The Cake Case Revisited
October 4, 2017 at 12:31 pm
Then your baker should move to a state which glorifies discrimination. There are plenty of them. Because that is what you are defending.
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RE: The Cake Case Revisited
October 4, 2017 at 12:36 pm
(This post was last modified: October 4, 2017 at 12:39 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(October 4, 2017 at 12:09 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: That's why I differentiated between refusing a particular service (making a cake for a cause you vehemently disagree with), and refusing service to a person because of who they are.
You didn't differentiate, you just insisted that that some discrimination should be allowed for reasons convenient to your faith. Well, we've seen how people who hold your faith choose to use such a privilege. We're not as impressed with or convinced of it's good virtue as you are.
If a christian baker should be able to use his business as a prop to discriminate on political, moral, or religious grounds...then so to should the white supremacist be able to use his business as a prop to discriminate based on -his- political, moral, or religious grounds. Conveniently, we've seen how that plays out as well.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: The Cake Case Revisited
October 4, 2017 at 2:16 pm
BTW, I still don't have a fucking piece of cake yet, especially a piece with smooth creamy delectable buttercreme frosting.
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RE: The Cake Case Revisited
October 4, 2017 at 2:19 pm
(October 4, 2017 at 3:24 am)ignoramus Wrote: This is what they look like...
![[Image: 1x0btr.jpg]](https://i.imgflip.com/1x0btr.jpg)
I'll counter with this:
The granting of a pardon is an imputation of guilt, and the acceptance a confession of it.
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RE: The Cake Case Revisited
October 4, 2017 at 6:33 pm
(October 3, 2017 at 6:16 pm)Bob Kelso Wrote: People at my work refer to female jiggly bits as "cake", came here expecting that kind of cake.
Personally I think that if it's your business you should be able to do what you'd like with it, barring outright discrimination of course. I'm interested to see what happens.
The Northern Ireland courts got it right, if you're in the business of of selling wedding cakes you've no right to turn away potential buyers because you can't control your homophobia.
The only times a business should be allowed turn away a legitimate customer is when the customer wants them do something illegal or something morally repugnant (e.g. baking a wedding cake with a pair of runic "S's" and the slogan "Wir mussen die Juden ausrotten").
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RE: The Cake Case Revisited
October 4, 2017 at 7:13 pm
(October 4, 2017 at 6:33 pm)Tazzycorn Wrote: (October 3, 2017 at 6:16 pm)Bob Kelso Wrote: People at my work refer to female jiggly bits as "cake", came here expecting that kind of cake.
Personally I think that if it's your business you should be able to do what you'd like with it, barring outright discrimination of course. I'm interested to see what happens.
The Northern Ireland courts got it right, if you're in the business of of selling wedding cakes you've no right to turn away potential buyers because you can't control your homophobia.
The only times a business should be allowed turn away a legitimate customer is when the customer wants them do something illegal or something morally repugnant (e.g. baking a wedding cake with a pair of runic "S's" and the slogan "Wir mussen die Juden ausrotten").
Can't say I particularly disagree, hence the phrase "barring outright discrimination".
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(September 17, 2015 at 4:04 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote: I make change in the coin tendered. If you want courteous treatment, behave courteously. Preaching at me and calling me immoral is not courteous behavior.
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RE: The Cake Case Revisited
October 4, 2017 at 7:17 pm
(October 4, 2017 at 4:09 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (October 4, 2017 at 3:30 am)The Gentleman Bastard Wrote: In answer to C_L, I'd bake the fucking cake. I understand that if I open a business to the public, to remain viable I must cater to the whims of the public. Would I enjoy baking a cake with a swastika on it? No. Would I serve my clientele without bias? Bet your ass, just like these bigoted shit-stains should.
Equal rights for all means exactly that. If you wish to continue to be treated equally, you must treat others the same.
How would you feel, C_L, if an atheist baker refused to bake your wedding cake because you were a cathy-lick? These people are not discriminating against a cake. They're discriminating against other people.
As I've explained, refusing to bake a cake for a particular person because you don't like who they are, shouldn't be allowed. Refusing to bake a cake for an event or purpose you disagree with, should. So if I walked into a bakery and asked for a birthday cake for myself that said "happy birthday debora" and the baker happened to know I was catholic, he can't turn me away simply bc of who I am. But if I wanted a cake that said "Pro Life!" on it for a pro life fundraiser I was hosting, you can absolutely say no if you are against the pro life movement.
But I'm sure the wedding cake didn't say congratulations on your super gay wedding Steve and Ralph, It probably just said congratulations Steve and Ralph. So isn't the Baker turning away Steve and Ralph for who they are and not for something being put on their cake?
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