Reasoning showing homosexuality is evil.

[Mystic]

I will never accept homosexuals or bisexuals in the sense I will never condone their actions as moral or neutral, to me they are evil choices they have made.

I have presented so far four arguments in this thread, and I have more, as to why they are evil choices. And as the clarity from God expected regarding this, that is another argument, I have not argued because it will just turn to another debate about God and we all know the reason people deny God is to avoid his judgment and submission to his chosen Leaders who he has given authority to.

[paulpablo]

This is false.

The reason why there is a debate is purely because there's two opposing claims.  The debate is whether or not sexuality is a choice.

No, it would have been more on the lines "it is not wrong if there is free-will or not free-will involved for certain, so why does it matter if free-will is involved in choice or not" and if people really felt strongly that if it is done by free-will as a factor, then it would not be evil, people would not care for the free-will factor at all. 

The very fact they resort to making it an exception to free-will, shows they know it is wrong if free-will is a major factor and it comes down to a choice of the state of the person (even if a very long choice with many psychological factors).

And the question is really, how and why we know this. It is our knowledge of good and evil, and everything possible of free-will to choose and is evil, is in fact really actually possible for it to choose.

That is why I spoke about the story of people of Lut in Quran, because it puts into the worse context. A context where people were choosing this to the extent the society men became lustful towards men instead of women and began to justify other crimes.

I know no one accepts this story as probable or even historically possible, but it is no doubt philosophically possible.   So the sin shown philosophically, going back the premises of what is rationally possible of free-will to do of evil, is in fact actually possible of free-will to do of evil.

I hope for an honest discussion but won't hold my breath!

You will get an honest discussion, believe me.

What you said here is wrong.

I am telling you that I believe sexual actions are overwhelming a result of sexuality and that sexuality in my opinion overwhelmingly not a choice.

There might be some exceptions, there's usually exceptions to any kind of behavior or tendency, someone might go gay for pay, or gay due to some circumstances or whatever, but mostly people are gay because of their built in biology, it's how their brains are wired.

When I tell you it's my opinion that being gay is overwhelmingly not a choice I'm not resorting to making sexuality exempt from free will.

I don't care, at all, not 1%, if homosexuality is free will or not.  I have nothing to gain either way.  

What I'm doing is telling you my opinion.  It's also based on the fact that I've been staring at girls I found attractive since I was around 5 or 6 years old, beyond that I remember the first female celebrity I got obsessed with at around age 9, when I first found out about vaginas I was obsessed.

In my teen night club years I would go to gay clubs for the cheap beer, I'd hang around with homosexuals, one of my best friends was bi, and as I said now I go on various types of hook up websites and get offered gay sex.

The point being, if homosexuality was a choice, you'd think somewhere along the line as a child I'd at least have looked at another boy, once, just the one time had some sexual thought about a boy.  You'd think that in my teen years I might have acted on it once, I basically used to hang around a miniature society in the form of a night club where most people were gay.  I have been propositioned and offered gay sex, and yet somehow I've managed all these years to always be disgusted by the idea of sex with a man.  

In conclusion this is because of the way my brain is wired.

If it was just like choosing cherry coke or original coke and I've spent my whole life surrounded by both you think I would have tried both at some point.

That's my honest response from me to you.  Why I believe it's not a choice overwhelmingly most of the time, and how I feel I've never chosen my attraction to women.

[Edwardo Piet]

Loving a married person is wrong.

^^^ This is fucking absurd, of course. But at least it means you're not going to bother getting married to a woman (or man) so they don't have to put up with your stupid bullshit.

By the way . . . I've never even read the Koran and even I know that it does not teach that loving your wife or husband is wrong.

[Joods]

We can't choose our beliefs in the sense honestly believe in a falsehood, however we can choose to deceive ourselves or be honest with ourselves, and that provides either confusion (in deceiving oneself) or clarity (in being honest to oneself).

And that is all it comes down to, responsibility to what our hearts accept and follow and believe and value.

bold mine.

Then you need to be responsible enough to accept the belief that gay people are allowed to follow their hearts and love and value whom they want to love and value. 

After all, isn't that all it comes down to?

[Mystic]

^context but what can I expect from such "honest" person.

[Edwardo Piet]

I will never accept homosexuals or bisexuals in the sense I will never condone their actions as moral or neutral, to me they are evil choices they have made.

Holy crap you're dumb.

[emjay]

Still waiting to hear if you want to chuck me off a roof, MK. I don't care if you do, but I want to know where you stand on that.

[Nay_Sayer]

I will never accept homosexuals or bisexuals in the sense I will never condone their actions as moral or neutral, to me they are evil choices they have made.

I have presented so far four arguments in this thread, and I have more, as to why they are evil choices. And as the clarity from God expected regarding this, that is another argument, I have not argued because it will just turn to another debate about God and we all know the reason people deny God is to avoid his judgment and submission to his chosen Leaders who he has given authority to.

That sounds exactly like what a homosexual would say.

Don't play coy, I know you. 

[Edwardo Piet]

^context but what can I expect from such "honest" person.

And is this the part where you actually pretend to have stated that you specified that you meant only people loving married people who themselves are not married?

I hope not, because you honestly did not state that. If you wanted to give the impression that you meant that non-married people shouldn't try to love married people then you should have honestly stated that or be made fun of for honestly making stupid comments.

Just being honest.

I have not lied. Not saying you have either, but you are once again deluded to think I have been anything but completely honest. (Perhaps it would help if you learned what "honesty" means).

[Ravenshire]

Like the religious fuck-wit you've become, you now parrot the teachings of other religious fuck-wits in  drawing a comparison between homosexuality and incest. You probably believe that incest is more prevalent in homosexuals too, don't you?

I went on to say, she had the exception in mind, so I am not using that at all, nor did I compare the two. I am attacking the premise, but even in that, said I knew she had that exception in mind so am not holding it against the generality of the premise. But then I showed the generality get's destroyed even further and is generally not true.

Well then, I'll apologize for that point.

And then I made an argument that was unrelated to all that, which showed to be evil and wrong as well. And it is another argument, that provides clarity.  Let us be honest to yourselves You guys don't want morals to be clear, you don't want good and evil to be clearly defined.

Even though you continue to stumble along in ignorance. Right and wrong are quite clearly defined for many things, less clearly for others. Good and evil, as you present them, are bullshit made up by religions.

You want a soup of grey where you choose to hold on to whatever you like and make your own standards. For a people who always argue there are no objective morals at all, you guys are very adamant for the morals you believe.

How does holding adamantly to a morality (or any other belief) make one shit-bit of difference to whether that morality is subjective (they all are) or objective (none of them are)?