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RE: One sentence that throws the problem of evil out of the window.
November 7, 2017 at 11:22 pm
(This post was last modified: November 7, 2017 at 11:31 pm by Catholic_Lady.)
(November 7, 2017 at 10:15 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: (November 7, 2017 at 2:29 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Atlas: yes, I have Muslim friends. I am well aware that Muslims and many Christian denominations believe I will go to Hell for being Catholic.
I can be of its inhabitants in the afterlife, anybody can, and nobody knows is written for sure to be of its citizens. That's how it is in Islam.
According to Catholic tradition; I assume I want be accepted in heaven too since I don't accept Jesus -peace be upon him- to be the Lord; God.
No, we don't teach that in Catholicism.
(November 7, 2017 at 10:49 pm)The Gentleman Bastard Wrote: (November 7, 2017 at 9:20 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: That's par for the course.
So, do you believe a truly repentant murderer or rapist who asks and receives forgiveness from your gawd gets into heaven? Do you believe that those who do not believe in your gawd don't get it? If you believe both of those things, then you seem to interpret your faith exactly as Khem stated.
I believe the first thing, so long as the rapist's/murder's heart truly changes and he is fully repentant. I don't know that that's possible, but in theory, if it did happen, of course God would forgive.
I don't believe the second thing. Once a person dies and sees God, they then know He exists and have the opportunity to accept or reject Him. Hell is a continuous state of rejecting God.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: One sentence that throws the problem of evil out of the window.
November 7, 2017 at 11:34 pm
(This post was last modified: November 7, 2017 at 11:37 pm by ErGingerbreadMandude.)
Whateverist Wrote:So perhaps what you're calling objective morality is what we normals acknowledge as morally permissible or not.
Is killing innocents morally permissible? No? Then why do you fund bombings that kill innocents?... The problem with "what we normals acknowledge as morally permissible or not" is it's bendable because we created it. One minute it's not okay to murder innocent babies, next minute it is, but if you look at objective morality it can't change for our purpose, it's the same from the beginning of time to the end of time because that's what God intended for us so you can't really "bend the rules" because the rules is God's will and we don't get to change God's will, in the other case ("what we normals acknowledge as morally permissible or not") it is not God's will it is OUR will ie, it's humans will and humans are subject to evil, so by effect what we acknowledge as morally permissible can also change and it can also change for the worse.
Edit: Also a answer for Mr.Wizard that asked a question earlier
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RE: One sentence that throws the problem of evil out of the window.
November 7, 2017 at 11:35 pm
(This post was last modified: November 7, 2017 at 11:39 pm by I_am_not_mafia.)
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RE: One sentence that throws the problem of evil out of the window.
November 7, 2017 at 11:37 pm
(This post was last modified: November 7, 2017 at 11:47 pm by WinterHold.)
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RE: One sentence that throws the problem of evil out of the window.
November 7, 2017 at 11:44 pm
(November 7, 2017 at 10:24 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: (November 7, 2017 at 10:22 pm)Khemikal Wrote: No...no, wait a minute..Allah didn't do any of that shit. That was us.
Yes, exactly, just like Pharaoh forced God to destroy him, and evil was from Pharaoh and not God.
It's good you are starting to understand.
I just love the way religiousites want to give their particular flavor of gawd all the credit for creating the universe, but are unwilling to pass over any of the guilt for the evil done in that universe. Who do they believe created it? All of it, not just parts of it. "Oh, but free will" they'll argue. Who, according to them, knowing beforehand exactly what would happen if it gave out free will? Who was it that completely, perfectly understood quantum mechanics and allegedly couldn't give a naked woman enough will power along with her free will to tell a talking snake to piss off?
If gawd created everything, it created Satan and it created evil, either directly or as an indirect result of something else, it created everything that we call evil..
Thief and assassin for hire. Member in good standing of the Rogues Guild.
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RE: One sentence that throws the problem of evil out of the window.
November 7, 2017 at 11:47 pm
(This post was last modified: November 7, 2017 at 11:49 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: One sentence that throws the problem of evil out of the window.
November 7, 2017 at 11:51 pm
(This post was last modified: November 7, 2017 at 11:55 pm by Whateverist.)
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RE: One sentence that throws the problem of evil out of the window.
November 7, 2017 at 11:56 pm
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: One sentence that throws the problem of evil out of the window.
November 7, 2017 at 11:59 pm
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RE: One sentence that throws the problem of evil out of the window.
November 7, 2017 at 11:59 pm
(This post was last modified: November 8, 2017 at 12:00 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(November 7, 2017 at 11:34 pm)pool the matey Wrote: Is killing innocents morally permissible? No? Then why do you fund bombings that kill innocents?... The problem with "what we normals acknowledge as morally permissible or not" is it's bendable because we created it. One minute it's not okay to murder innocent babies, next minute it is, but if you look at objective morality it can't change for our purpose, it's the same from the beginning of time to the end of time because that's what God intended for us so you can't really "bend the rules" because the rules is God's will and we don't get to change God's will, in the other case ("what we normals acknowledge as morally permissible or not") it is not God's will it is OUR will ie, it's humans will and humans are subject to evil, so by effect what we acknowledge as morally permissible can also change and it can also change for the worse.
Edit: Also a answer for Mr.Wizard that asked a question earlier
The more you tell me about god and his rules and intentions the more you express a subjective moral framework. It doesn;t matter whether or not he changes his mind...that just makes it an eternally inflexible subjective morality.
An objective morality, on the other hand..would -have- to change if some previously unknown and relevant fact came to light.
In any case, your god kills innocents with a certain amount of enthusiasm.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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