One sentence that throws the problem of evil out of the window.

[Astreja]

MK, mental illness is not a sin. Neither is homosexuality.

[Mystic]

MK, mental illness is not a sin.  Neither is homosexuality.

I've heard it enough times till I really did lose my will due to believing I had no control over my wellbeing and health.  Believing this lie is the reason why most schizophrenics lack will power. They are told this by leading "experts" and "sympathetic" community and humans if they can do away with guilt, will almost always do away with it.  If they can escape responsibility, they will. Except it cripples us by doing so.

The best and noblest way to recover from mental illness is not only to take responsibility for your recovery, but to believe you always had a way out and a way to avoid the catastrophe,

[Astreja]

No, MK, I don't think willpower is enough in the case of mental illnesses. Many of them can be controlled by careful use of medications. Schizophrenia in particular is a group of symptoms that does not have a single cause, and one of the possible causes is a disturbance in brain chemistry.

Willpower is also now thought to be a limited commodity that declines over the course of a day, so it can't be counted on to always protect you. (It can, however, be used to motivate yourself to follow recommended treatments on a day-to-day basis, which would be a good example of taking responsibility.)

[Mystic]

No one is saying we don't need a treatment or should not take medications. Although I do know a person she is without medications now and doing well to the extent she is in college now and it is through sheer will she survives a fractured brain.

Of course, if you download a virus that brings your hardware into overdrive to the extent you don't do the most necessary things for your health, there is going to be hardware problems.

[bennyboy]

Benny Boy, I don't know why you are asking me if Charlie Manson went to Hell after I've made it perfectly clear multiple times that I don't know who does/does not go to Hell. I'm not sure how much more clear I can be about this, so ill say it one more time: I don't know who goes to Hell. I don't know if Charlie Manson went to Hell. If I *had* to take a guess, id say yes, but i cant claim that because i dont know, and neither am i supposed to know. It's specificslly not my place, and we are warned against these types of judgements on other people's souls.

You are warned against that, because if you actually start to think for yourself, you'll realize that "holy" means "full of holes."

Whats really fucking annoying is that you dont accept my honest answer and you're accusing me of dodging the OP even though i've already answered to it (basically accusing me of being dishonest in my answers). I don't know what else say to someone who won't take what I say at face value. Kind of impossible to have a discussion with someone like that.

Good. Be annoyed. You have no actual address for the OP. Here we are, in the philosophy section, and your entire intellectual contribution is "La la la nobody can know, but I still believe God is good."

Listen, I've delt with you in the past where you treated me like shit, accused me of rape apology, insinuated I'm not the person on my avatar picture, and pulled the same shit that people "go easy on me" because I'm nice and because "the person on my avatar picture is hot".

They don't go easy on you for your ability to put forward a rational philosophical argument, do they? As far as I can remember, not only have you never really put forward a rational argument in defense of Christianity in general or the POE in specific, you've never even claimed there IS a rational argument to be made.

As for rape apology-- I don't think I said you directly support rape. I probably said that by being a "nice" member of the Catholic religion, you are contributing to the sustenance of an institution which deals with rape so lightly that it borders on condoning it.

...And now you're literally sitting here telling me I'm insidious and equating me with the Devil.

No, I'm not equating you with the Devil. The Devil is relatively harmless, what with not being real, but you are an actual existent entity. When nice people promulgate bad ideas, there's real damage being done.

I believe the entire Christian dogma, and that of Catholics in particular, to be usurious and harmful to the ability of the population to deal in a clear-minded way with the very real dangers in the world today. I therefore see people like you, no matter how well-intentioned, as a threat to the safety of my family and to humanity in general. And this isn't just me being superstitious: I could compile a list about a mile long of the way religion is being used in the US to degrade the citizens' rights or to prevent them from coming to rational conclusions about how the country (or its cities, counties, etc.) should deal with real problems.

Lol. As you can imagine, you're not exactly my favorite person around here, and the minute you start to pull the same bullshit and attacking me on a personal level, is the minute I lose all respect for you and start ignoring you. Theres no reason for me to take the time to have a conversation with the real fucking pricks of the forum. Goodbye asshole.

When a person holds onto bad ideas, and you attack those ideas, is that a personal attack? I've said you are nice, and you claim I said you were "hot." Okay-- where's the attack? I told you I want to challenge you to really think about ideas you hold, which are irrational and poorly supported by evidence, and which I believe bring real harm to the world. My defense for challenging you in this way is-- that's what this thread is ABOUT!

Please understand this-- I might be a prick or an asshole, but I always, and I mean ALWAYS, have a point. I don't wade into a philosophical forum and say, "La la la I don't have any actual support for my ideas or proof that my God idea represents more than a juvenile fairy tale, but I just choose to believe God is a swell guy anyway!"

[Catholic_Lady]

Eh go masturbate to your dog.

[bennyboy]

What sucks is I was actually starting to forgive and forget this douche fucker for the shit he pulled on me last year. Turns out he's still the same old cunt. Oh well.

Here's my childish behavior for the day: deleting the rep I gave him a month ago. Whoops.

Okay. I said I wanted to challenge you. Clearly, that's happened.

Now on to step 2: to see if your rage will let you see through the fog of ignorance that you've been steeped in for your entire life. Ask yourself-- is there actually any reason for your to cling to these fairy tales? What are you really getting out of being Catholic that you couldn't get by dropping the delusional beliefs and just sticking with the natural niceness that you clearly have (at least, when you're not upset about being challenged about your religious beliefs in an atheist-themed forum).

---

Eh go masturbate to your dog.

Nono, I would never do that.  Then HE wouldn't get to go to Magical Fairyland when he dies, either!

[Whateverist]

Eh go masturbate to your dog.

Nono, I would never do that.  Then HE wouldn't get to go to Magical Fairyland when he dies, either!

Silly. It has been well established that all dogs go to heaven. (We only go when we're as good as they are. Don't know about you but I've been working on my down, stay and recall.)

[bennyboy]

Nono, I would never do that.  Then HE wouldn't get to go to Magical Fairyland when he dies, either!

Silly.  It has been well established that all dogs go to heaven.  (We only go when we're as good as they are.  Don't know about you but I've been working on my down, stay and recall.)

I think that's another myth.  My dog is gay, or at least bisexual.  And everybody knows that the Creator of all the universe, the billions of galaxies, super-massive stars, planets of infinite variety, and countless species of organisms cannot tolerate the idea that two organisms with an "outie" might rub up against each other. Because, in the grand scheme of things-- that's a really important issue! (Thus sayeth the Lord)

Anyway, my dog is already in heaven. He's got my pillows and my daughter's stuffed toys to hump, he's got a regular supply of cheese, and nobody tries to make him pretend to believe that the Tooth Fairy is real.

[Jackalope]

Nono, I would never do that.  Then HE wouldn't get to go to Magical Fairyland when he dies, either!

Silly.  It has been well established that all dogs go to heaven.  (We only go when we're as good as they are.  Don't know about you but I've been working on my down, stay and recall.)

Any heaven that excluded dogs is a heaven not worth it's name.

No benevolent deity would deny mankind their besties.