Why some humans are so evil: double standards and irreligion

[henryp]

In my opinion, what keeps us from being awful is circumstance.  If you and I were born 200 years ago, we'd very likely have no problem owning some slaves.  400 years ago, we'd almost certainly be devoutly religious, maybe burning some people for witchcraft?  I don't think there's anything special about you and I that we aren't out raping and stealing.  What's special is the circumstances into which we were born.  That's primarily what's kept us from being a terrible people.  A coincidence of time and place.

To channel my inner Thunderf00t, were I to find myself suddenly transported into those times with the same mind I have at present, ie I'm the sazme person as I am now, then no I would not do those things. I could not do those things. On the other hand, if I was to find myself a product of my time, then that person would not be me to the extent that I could not say either way how I might behave. That's why I can reflect on the worst periods in history and think how terrible that people were subjected to them.

I think you just agreed with my bolded?

[Pat Mustard]

I doubt that the gangster would do what he did if he feared hell, and that the same would happen to him.

Read up some time on Fr Brendan Smyth. Devout and believing catholic, raped hundreds of children in a most brutal manner. Or read up on the Tuam babies scandal, same religion murdered eight hundred children.

If fear of god made people good these things wouldn't happen.

As Havelock Vetinari put it:

I was walking along the bank of a stream when I saw a mother otter with her cubs, a very endearing sight, I'm sure you'll agree. And even as I watched, the mother otter dived into the water and came up with a plump salmon, which she subdued and dragged onto a half submerged log. As she ate it, while of course it was still alive, the body split and I remember to this day the sweet pinkness of its roes as they spilled out, much to the delight of the baby otters, who scrambled over themselves to feed on the delicacy. One of nature's wonders, gentlemen. Mother and children dining upon mother and children. And that is when I first learned about evil. It is built into the very nature of the universe. Every world spins in pain. If there is any kind of supreme being, I told myself, it is up to all of us to become his moral superior.

That is truth.

[Aoi Magi]

Evil people will do evil things but for a good person to do evil takes a strong idea and religion fits the bill.

I never did understand that quote that I keep seeing around here. It doesn't mean religious ideals are, in and of themselves, intrinsically bad. Which is what I think the quote is trying to convey. Obviously any strong idea can influence you do bad things if it's a bad idea lol. And likewise a strong idea can influence you to do good things if it's a good idea. We can't just talk about ideas in isolation as though they are all the same, whether they came from religion or not.

No religion isn't just an idea, it is an organised brainwashing system which is the basis for humans to let go of their humanity.

In every religion there is a supreme authority who must be obeyed without questioning. In christianity for example that figure is "god" (and by extension, his so called representatives here on earth), remember the story of lot? The basic requirement of christianity is to believe it first, then seek arguments to support that belief (read bias). And the moment you start believing things without question, you are leaving yourself vulnerable to being mislead.

[Catholic_Lady]

I never did understand that quote that I keep seeing around here. It doesn't mean religious ideals are, in and of themselves, intrinsically bad. Which is what I think the quote is trying to convey. Obviously any strong idea can influence you do bad things if it's a bad idea lol. And likewise a strong idea can influence you to do good things if it's a good idea. We can't just talk about ideas in isolation as though they are all the same, whether they came from religion or not.

No religion isn't just an idea, it is an organised brainwashing system which is the basis for humans to let go of their humanity.

In every religion there is a supreme authority who must be obeyed without questioning. In christianity for example that figure is "god" (and by extension, his so called representatives here on earth), remember the story of lot? The basic requirement of christianity is to believe it first, then seek arguments to support that belief (read bias). And the moment you start believing things without question, you are leaving yourself vulnerable to being mislead.

So you think I've let go of my humanity because I believe in God?

[The Grand Nudger]

The catholic church does demand that you do so, after all..and follow not your wicked and sinful heart, but the glory of your blessed savior, Christ Jesus. 

I doubt that many believers actually manage to let go of their humanity, but that is the goal, what with it being filthy in the sight of the lord and all.

[Brian37]

I doubt that the gangster would do what he did if he feared hell, and that the same would happen to him.

Weren't you just saying something about the inquisition?  

Meanwhile, the quran is torture porn, whomever wrote it was one sick puppy.....maybe that's why you think "fear of hell" should compel people?

But the writers of the Koran were simply rewriting the mythology of Jews and Christians.

[Aoi Magi]

No religion isn't just an idea, it is an organised brainwashing system which is the basis for humans to let go of their humanity.

In every religion there is a supreme authority who must be obeyed without questioning. In christianity for example that figure is "god" (and by extension, his so called representatives here on earth), remember the story of lot? The basic requirement of christianity is to believe it first, then seek arguments to support that belief (read bias). And the moment you start believing things without question, you are leaving yourself vulnerable to being mislead.

So you think I've let go of my humanity because I believe in God?

Nope, that'd be the final step, and most people don't go so far. But I do believe you've made yourself vulnerable to being mislead, not because you believe in god, but because you are under the authority of an organized religion.

[Cyberman]

To channel my inner Thunderf00t, were I to find myself suddenly transported into those times with the same mind I have at present, ie I'm the sazme person as I am now, then no I would not do those things. I could not do those things. On the other hand, if I was to find myself a product of my time, then that person would not be me to the extent that I could not say either way how I might behave. That's why I can reflect on the worst periods in history and think how terrible that people were subjected to them.

I think you just agreed with my bolded?

Only up to a point, because your thought experiment concerned "you and I". I said that the person representing me in that scenario would either be me as I am now, or some other person I wouldn't recognise; being so far removed from 'me' as to be literally not me, and thus neither of us are in a position to speculate on how I would behave.

[Cyberman]

IKR, like the reason that most of us -don't- molest children isn't because we're good people, or because we fear punishment if caught.

Just....don't......wanna.

It's like those silly FB-type posts asking if we would take part in The PurgeTM if it was a thing. My answer is a categorical "no", and I would aim to save as many others who feel the same as I could.

[Catholic_Lady]

Wally, if what you're saying is true, then why don't we just euthanize people who are often seen as a burden to society as a whole? Such as poor people, severely handicapped people, really sick people, etc? It would certainly be "better for society" in a purely materialistic sort of way. Why do we have so many people dedicating their lives and traveling to the poorest places on earth to help those in need?

Surely there is something in us that desires goodness, even though it is constantly in conflict with selfish desires, it's there. And we have the ability to choose which way we go. Dont you think?

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So you think I've let go of my humanity because I believe in God?

Nope, that'd be the final step, and most people don't go so far. But I do believe you've made yourself vulnerable to being mislead, not because you believe in god, but because you are under the authority of an organized religion.

Ok, so I'm not there yet , but you think the main goal of my faith is to get me to lose my humanity, and I'm being led that way and will eventually get there if I give in? Lol.

This sounds like some weird conspiracy thing to me. And it wouldn't explain the fact that my faith has taught me a very humanistic sense of morality.