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Rebellion against god
#91
RE: Rebellion against god
(February 17, 2018 at 11:04 am)Little Rik Wrote:
(February 17, 2018 at 10:51 am)Cyberman Wrote: I wouldn't expect you to know anything about english. You've yet to get your head around drooling and bladder control.


Ok. then.  Popcorn

You teach me English and I teach you how this universe works.  Lightbulb

Deal?  Bird

You are offering a miserable life run by fear of magical torture. You can't be that stupid to don't see that people are disgusted by your offer long ago on this site.
[Image: keep-calm-and-praise-the-sun.jpg]
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#92
RE: Rebellion against god
(February 17, 2018 at 12:12 am)Banned Wrote:
(February 16, 2018 at 11:44 pm)drfuzzy Wrote: And after all of that, you're yammering on about your imaginary friend again.  He doesn't exist, and he has never existed.  Any being that (purportedly) created the entire universe, billions upon billions of galaxies, unfathomable distances, can find a reasonable way to provide an infinitesimal group of primates with proof of its existence that doesn't involve books of fantasies or lying con men.  Particularly con men who insist upon blind obedience and "trust" and "faith" because they need control over groups of people, because they know they have no proof of ANY of the ignorant vomit that they are spewing. Your universe-creator can speak for itself, in a way that is clear and obvious to all.  When it does, it will be worthy of some attention.  Until then piss off.

So if God puts on a little science show for us, how will the deaf, or the blind, or the severely disabled get their proof?
I guess the disabled will just have to miss out.

But if the proof comes from faith within that God has given as free gift, then all can know the truth.
Such a gift ensures that the ones who think they are better than God will not enter eternal life.
Why would anyone with sense allow the new world to be populated by total creeps?

"Put on a little science show".  Funny.  No, god has to SHOW UP.  It would be very, very easy for such a being to do so and get put on every TV news show on the planet.  The "creeps" are the people who have "faith" that they are right and special because they have accepted a free gift for which there is no proof but the voices in their heads, trying to lord it over those who won't accept their delusions.
"The family that prays together...is brainwashing their children."- Albert Einstein
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#93
RE: Rebellion against god
(February 17, 2018 at 12:30 am)Banned Wrote:
(February 16, 2018 at 11:50 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: Yeah, that's one of the thing that gets me about Christianity.

"God doesn't reveal himself because he values free will, and doesn't want to impede it."  Bwuh?  How does revealing himself eliminate free will?  There's ample proof that our planet is round, yet many people still believe it's flat.  I fail to see why credible evidence for a god, any god, would magically eliminate free will, or why ancient myths and preachers are required at all.

How does revealing himself cause one to appreciate his character - which was assassinated by those who once lived in his presence?

The people who were saved out of Egyptian slavery, what did they do when God revealed himself - they ran and worshiped the golden calf.

God revealing himself would achieve nothing for the majority of sinners.
How long should a revelation last to be convincing anyway?

You don't comment on the wonder of the sun every hour do you?
Think of human nature.

And how does God revealing himself suddenly remove free will?
Who makes up this stuff?

I don't wonder at the sun, but at least I know it's there. It'd be nice if god, any god, could meet even that basic standard.
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#94
RE: Rebellion against god
(February 17, 2018 at 12:30 am)Banned Wrote:
(February 16, 2018 at 11:50 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: Yeah, that's one of the thing that gets me about Christianity.

"God doesn't reveal himself because he values free will, and doesn't want to impede it."  Bwuh?  How does revealing himself eliminate free will?  There's ample proof that our planet is round, yet many people still believe it's flat.  I fail to see why credible evidence for a god, any god, would magically eliminate free will, or why ancient myths and preachers are required at all.

How does revealing himself cause one to appreciate his character - which was assassinated by those who once lived in his presence?

The people who were saved out of Egyptian slavery, what did they do when God revealed himself - they ran and worshiped the golden calf.

God revealing himself would achieve nothing for the majority of sinners.
How long should a revelation last to be convincing anyway?

You don't comment on the wonder of the sun every hour do you?
Think of human nature.

And how does God revealing himself suddenly remove free will?
Who makes up this stuff?

Oh, so because the fable says god-boy was assassinated . . . your sky-daddy is pissing his pants and hiding and won't face humans ever again?  Wow, the Romans must have been REALLY SCARY.  This creature can create the entire universe, then supposedly send himself down to sacrifice himself to himself because of some rule he made himself, and it all scared the crap out of him so much that he's never showing up to prove his existence again, ever ever ever!!!!
   No people were saved from Egyptian slavery, archaeological findings have established that.  The Exodus was a fable.  The "golden calf" was taken from the idols of nearby tribes.
"God revealing himself would achieve nothing for the majority of sinners."  You're possibly right there.  He would have A WHOLE LOT of questions to answer and a whole lot of apologies to make.  And then he might not be worthy of worship.
"Who makes up this stuff?"  Con-men witch-doctors snake-oil-salesmen have been convincing others that they could control the rain gods for thousands of years.  It's a way to gain power over others and nothing more.
"The family that prays together...is brainwashing their children."- Albert Einstein
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#95
RE: Rebellion against god
Also, yes, I have seen the "If god were to actually appear and prove his existence, then people would be compelled to believe in him, thus eliminating free will" 'argument' several times on this very forum by other Christians. It's always a response to the question why god would rather have his creations exhibit faith rather than having knowledge. So, please don't act like it's some crazy idea I pulled out of my ass. If you have a problem with it, take it up with your contemporaries.
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#96
RE: Rebellion against god
(February 17, 2018 at 3:55 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: Also, yes, I have seen the "If god were to actually appear and prove his existence, then people would be compelled to believe in him, thus eliminating free will" 'argument' several times on this very forum by other Christians.  It's always a response to the question why god would rather have his creations exhibit faith rather than having knowledge.  So, please don't act like it's some crazy idea I pulled out of my ass.  If you have a problem with it, take it up with your contemporaries.

And some folks (according to Scripture) do have direct knowledge. The Virgin Mary gestating the Holy Ghost's only begotten son springs to mind.

Lazarus would have been aware of his life functions being restored! And all those folks who drink deadly poison and live, handle dangerous venomous snakes with out harm, and those that lay their hands upon the sick and lame and heal them transcend belief.

They KNOW.

Now of we could just get one of them to post here . . . .



Recall the scene in Fright Night when the Roddy McDowell character whips out a crucifix on the Chris Sarandon vampire character and the vampire explains "For that to work on ME, YOU have to believe !!!"

And then Roddy McDowell grins, believes and thrusts the cross at the vampire who then withers in response !!!


Sorry, I digress . . .
 The granting of a pardon is an imputation of guilt, and the acceptance a confession of it. 




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#97
RE: Rebellion against god
(February 17, 2018 at 4:30 am)Cyberman Wrote: Etymology fail:

https://www.etymonline.com/word/good
https://www.etymonline.com/word/god

Cyberman - I took it for granted that the word good and god had the same root word, because I come from European/Celtic stock, and that's the way my ancestors used the word.
Modern versions of the etymology seem to have changed that idea. But I can accept that while on the forum.

(February 17, 2018 at 3:55 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: Also, yes, I have seen the "If god were to actually appear and prove his existence, then people would be compelled to believe in him, thus eliminating free will" 'argument' several times on this very forum by other Christians. It's always a response to the question why god would rather have his creations exhibit faith rather than having knowledge. So, please don't act like it's some crazy idea I pulled out of my ass. If you have a problem with it, take it up with your contemporaries.

Well I certainly don't go along with the idea that a show would remove free will, and I can understand your rejection of it.

As to the question of God not showing up, I have never had to deal with it, because I had all the evidence right from childhood, without any help from adults, churches and the Bible. etc.
The world is God's creation.

So I really don't know what kind of science show would convince people, and I doubt that it would cause a deep love for God.
Beauty and healing doesn't change sinners, they hate God anyway, because they love sin.


(February 17, 2018 at 2:51 pm)drfuzzy Wrote: Oh, so because the fable says god-boy was assassinated . . . your sky-daddy is pissing his pants and hiding and won't face humans ever again?  Wow, the Romans must have been REALLY SCARY.  This creature can create the entire universe, then supposedly send himself down to sacrifice himself to himself because of some rule he made himself, and it all scared the crap out of him so much that he's never showing up to prove his existence again, ever ever ever!!!!
   No people were saved from Egyptian slavery, archaeological findings have established that.  The Exodus was a fable.  The "golden calf" was taken from the idols of nearby tribes.
"God revealing himself would achieve nothing for the majority of sinners."  You're possibly right there.  He would have A WHOLE LOT of questions to answer and a whole lot of apologies to make.  And then he might not be worthy of worship.
"Who makes up this stuff?"  Con-men witch-doctors snake-oil-salesmen have been convincing others that they could control the rain gods for thousands of years.  It's a way to gain power over others and nothing more.

That's pretty much what the Jewish leaders said about Christ.
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#98
RE: Rebellion against god
(February 17, 2018 at 5:44 pm)Banned Wrote:
(February 17, 2018 at 4:30 am)Cyberman Wrote: Etymology fail:

https://www.etymonline.com/word/good
https://www.etymonline.com/word/god

Cyberman - I took it for granted that the word good and god had the same root word, because I come from European/Celtic stock, and that's the way my ancestors used the word.
Modern versions of the etymology seem to have changed that idea. But I can accept that while on the forum.

That's fine, as long as you can accept the correction. It took me literally ten seconds to fact check, but I did have the head start of knowing it was untrue to begin with. By the way, it's not "modern versions of the etymology that changed the idea"; it's just etymology. Note that the paragraph I quoted is dated 1902.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist.  This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair.  Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second.  That means there's a situation vacant.'
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#99
RE: Rebellion against god
(February 16, 2018 at 5:18 pm)Banned Wrote: Just a couple of notes about hell.

No one is tortured without end.

After the world is destroyed at the second advent, the world lies desolate for 1000 years, no human life, just the fallen angels on their own.
The saints were raised to life at the advent of Christ, and they go to heaven and live there for 1000 years.

When the 1000 years are over, the city or heaven moves to earth and settles on it.
Then the wicked are raised to life - billions of them.
They are told by Satan that he is the misunderstood prince of this world, and that he wants to claim it back.

The wicked are organized and inspired to form weapons and an army to surround the city and take over. This takes months to prepare, and when they are ready, they march towards the city and surround it.
The people are taken back by the scene of heaven, and almost totally immobilized by the experience.

Then they are given a panoramic vision of the history of the conflict between good and evil - how it began in heaven and was played out on earth.

They see the entire history of earth, life of Christ, the rise and fall of nations, and their own impact in the world.

With perfect accuracy their own thoughts and actions are bought to view, showing the consequences of their sins on all affected.

All bow down before God and confess that he is fair and merciful in requiring a simple faith - the only means by which love can work.

Satan is hated and despised by all, he tries to rally the battle, but no one is interested, in their disappointment and bitterness, the people turn against whoever they blame for their demise, and try to kill them. The army is fighting itself.

A fire begins inside Satan's chest, and he falls to the ground, his angels are next in order of rank, and while they are burning, fire falls from heaven, and begins to consume the wicked.

The wicked are made to suffer the pain they caused on others, and the pain they caused God and heaven, and they die, in pure anguish, like Jesus did on the cross.

The murderer, will feel the stab wounds he gave, and the horror of dying. The thief will feel the loss and insecurity, the liar will feel betrayed, the adulterer will feel pain stronger than losing a loved one by death. The blasphemers will feel the agony of being utterly humiliated.

Some will burn for a long time, as long as it takes for them to experience what they have done to others and God. Satan is the last one to perish.

The earth itself is totally melted, but out of the white heat, a new creation begins, and the earth is turned into a paradise, better than it was in the beginning.
The earth becomes home base for universal travel.

Human beings will tend to and look after the countess planets and creatures. They are as gods to the universe.

The wicked utterly perish by an unquenchable fire, they will never be again, and in the ensuing years they will never be remembered.


I personally know a couple dozen devout christians who would completely disagree with half of this nonsense. And there are hundreds of millions of Christians who think your particular version of the afterlife Jesus has planned for you is not only inaccurate but actually completely falsified. Hell, most of what you just said isn't even IN the Bible. It's wishful thinking by those who want to make sense of the nonsense.

At any rate, you wanna believe it, that's great. Have a wonderful life full of one-sided conversations and needless guilt.
The only thing I want to know is why you have to come here and keep telling us about how great it is?? Validated much??
If I loved quilting, I wouldn't go to a biker gang and tell them all how stupid they are because they don't want to be involved.

The problem with you people is that your salvation isn't just your salvation, it has to be everybody else's torment. It's tantamount to Maugham's quote, "It is not enough that I succeed, everyone else must fail."

All you christians LOVE the exclusivity of your religion, despite the fact that you can't agree on anything. In turn, that makes you appear deviant and untrustworthy
... but mostly it just makes you kind of a dick.
[Image: Evolution.png]

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RE: Rebellion against god
(February 17, 2018 at 6:07 pm)Cyberman Wrote:
(February 17, 2018 at 5:44 pm)Banned Wrote: Cyberman - I took it for granted that the word good and god had the same root word, because I come from European/Celtic stock, and that's the way my ancestors used the word.
Modern versions of the etymology seem to have changed that idea. But I can accept that while on the forum.

That's fine, as long as you can accept the correction. It took me literally ten seconds to fact check, but I did have the head start of knowing it was untrue to begin with. By the way, it's not "modern versions of the etymology that changed the idea"; it's just etymology. Note that the paragraph I quoted is dated 1902.


Cyberman, where you get strength to post so often. I feel like responding to theists is pointless. You want to eradicate religion slowly by educating people online?
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