What beliefs would we consider reasonable for a self proclaimed Christian to hold?

[Edwardo Piet]

If it ain't a paradise it ain't Heaven

[drfuzzy]

After reading this thread it is most obvious that the atheist here have no idea what Christianity means. It's surprising how little the ones who claim they were Christians and then left the faith actually know or remember. This is why I've always challenged them to prove their claim and I will always maintain that challenge. You all do not have nor get the right to rewrite the Christian faith and whether you want to believe it or not God will never allow such a rewriting of His loving plan for mankind. It really is to bad you have glued those blinders over your eyes, it will be truly sad if you miss out on Paradise.

GC

I was raised Southern Baptist.  Then Pentecostal.  For over 40 years I have played the organ for nearly every major Protestant denomination - variations of Baptist, Lutheran, Methodist, Presbyterian, Evangelical, Quaker, 1st Bible, Holiness, Quaker . . . also Unitarian, Anglican, Episcopal, and I'm currently playing for Catholic Mass.  It's really too bad that all of these folks are reading from the same book, but most will accuse the others of "doing it wrong" or "false interpretation of the scriptures" etc., etc.   

When you talk about what God wants to someone who doesn't believe such a creature exists, the burden is upon you to prove it's existence.  It should be quite obvious that statements like "God will never allow such a rewriting of His loving plan" is beyond absurd . . . yeah, Superman was really ticked off when they changed his costume and then reported that he had died!  But then the holy comics posted that he was resurrected, hallelujah!  I'm going to go pray to him that you accept the truth so you won't miss out on Paradise!

There is no afterlife.  There is no god, no angels, no demons, no Satan, no ghosts, no zombies, no sparkly vampires, and no Santa Claus.

[Whateverist]

After reading this thread it is most obvious that the atheist here have no idea what Christianity means. It's surprising how little the ones who claim they were Christians and then left the faith actually know or remember. This is why I've always challenged them to prove their claim and I will always maintain that challenge. You all do not have nor get the right to rewrite the Christian faith and whether you want to believe it or not God will never allow such a rewriting of His loving plan for mankind. It really is to bad you have glued those blinders over your eyes, it will be truly sad if you miss out on Paradise.

GC

Guilty.  I don't understand what makes aomwone a christian, or for that matter what a JW, a Unitarian, a mormon, Pentecostal, a Quaker, a Catholic and a baptist have in common.  Some relation to the bible seems involved though some place even more emphasis on other books and there is little agreement on how to read it.  For that matter I remain confused regarding what a "god" even means, but I'm pretty sure it means different things to different denominations, and even different things to people within the same denomination.  

I really think it is you who have the blinders on GC, otherwise you'd see that the bowl of cherries you've put together and call your Christianity is pretty different from what others have gathered.  If were less myopic you'd realize it really is you who have the blinders on.

[vorlon13]

In the case of Mormon, a lobotomy would help.

[downbeatplumb]

After reading this thread it is most obvious that the atheist here have no idea what Christianity means. It's surprising how little the ones who claim they were Christians and then left the faith actually know or remember. This is why I've always challenged them to prove their claim and I will always maintain that challenge. You all do not have nor get the right to rewrite the Christian faith and whether you want to believe it or not God will never allow such a rewriting of His loving plan for mankind. It really is to bad you have glued those blinders over your eyes, it will be truly sad if you miss out on Paradise.

GC

Christians believe what  they want to believe generally.
But in the US for some reason, christianity has become a mixture of hateful bigoted ideologies that seek to oppress and impose. They seem to be getting more extreme and anti-intellectual by the day.
Rather strange, as the typical british Christians are rather nicer.

[The Grand Nudger]

Christians believe what  they want to believe generally.
But in the US for some reason, christianity has become a mixture of hateful bigoted ideologies that seek to oppress and impose. They seem to be getting more extreme and anti-intellectual by the day.
Rather strange, as the typical british Christians are rather nicer.

-and that's because "christianity" has become a cultural sort of christianity, rather than some position of faith on higher beings. It's more a statement on authority, ideology, and social stricture...than "gods", anymore.   Believing cultural christians™ only "believe" in the god that conforms to their own bigotries-as-edifice.  If jesus smoked pole, for example, most of those fuckers would jump ship. None of them would be willing to worship an "abomination" even if it was a god.

[Drich]

For me the beliefs I would look at are those involving the status of the bible, origins, the soul & afterlife, and the nature of God.  Here is what that would look like for me.

Regarding the bible, a reasonable Christian would have to accept the best scholarship regarding the origins of the text without regard to the denomination or belief status of the scholar.  It would also mean accepting that the proper way to read the bible is a reasonable topic for discussion, with all points of view accepted and without doctrinal dedication to a particular interpretation.  Those who believe the bible tells a Christian how to lead his life would be welcome to defend that position.  Likewise for those who think its chief use is allegorical or for those who think parts of it were literally inspired by God.  Every stance must be tolerated and defended, and none would enjoy authoritative standing.

Regarding origins, given what was already said about the bible, the beliefs a Christian could reasonably hold about creation would have to accord with the science surrounding the development and age of the earth as well as with our own evolution. They could hold that God was behind it in some unspecified way but that can't lead to conflicts with the science if their beliefs are to be deemed reasonable.

Oddly I think there is more room for Christians to hold what would strike us as lavishly speculative theories of what happens to a person's essence after death, since these wouldn't contradict anything essential about life as we know it.  But again to be reasonable, they would at least have to allow that another Christian is free to hold that talk of heaven, hell and souls is all figurative.  Talk of "true Christians" would have to be acknowledged to be unreasonable.

As for God, we should expect some Christians to see God as something inside, others as something out there and still others as something purely symbolic.  As with souls and an afterlife, any beliefs regarding the nature of God which doesn't contradict life as we know it, would be reasonable and insistence that any particular point of view should be accepted by all would be unreasonable - or else justified in a manner which doesn't claim an unearned authority.

It remains to be seen if that leaves enough for anyone to still find meaning and value in their Christian affiliation.  Naturally being considered to hold reasonable beliefs by the standards of non-Christians is probably of no concern to any Christians we know but hell - this exercise isn't for them anyhow.  (But theists should feel free to kibitz too.)

I read this an ask myself how does this differ from my very own core beliefs? Very little in the way I have approached God and the bible. Which is indeed how/why I have been able to reconcile so many different paradoxes that most can not see past.

Then I ask why is it that others do not see this in me.

While I know the answers could be very diverse I think the primary reason is, it is far easier to try and pin me as a bigoted person rather than someone unique or understand the differences between what I believe and those in whom you your self are trying to outline.

[The Grand Nudger]

Or maybe you're just bad at being an internet apologist and you say fucked up bigoted things with regularity? Honestly, Drich, watching you argue for christer ghosts makes -me- want to argue for them just so they don't get stuck with such shitty representation.

[Neo-Scholastic]

You disagree?...RACIST!

[Minimalist]

Well, it would have affected the books adopted for the Bible. I doubt Revelation would be in there. nor would some of the Pauline letters. That would make a big difference, I think.

Or, they would have been edited to conform to the new reality.  Surely you don't think that shit is "unchanging?"