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RE: What beliefs would we consider reasonable for a self proclaimed Christian to hold?
March 23, 2018 at 2:10 am
(This post was last modified: March 23, 2018 at 2:16 am by vulcanlogician.)
(March 23, 2018 at 1:11 am)He lives Wrote: I agree with your points and your argument. However by agreeing I would like to point out that everyone should also be skeptical about abiogenesis as there is no solid evidence to it's extraordinary claims that life began from some hypothetical primordial soup that was thought to exist on the pre life earth. This sounds too much like the fictional story of Frankenstein. At least in the story of Frankenstein body parts were used to bring him to life. You may say that life on earth is evidence of abiogenesis. However life on earth can also be used as evidence of intelligent design. In fact I am very much a skeptic of abiogenesis. The chances of the biogenesis Hypothesis ever happening are 1 in 10 to the 40,000th power. It would be more likely to find a brand new F-16 on the dark side of the moon. I therefore would like to know why anyone would trust in the abiogenesis hypothesis?I don't see it as being of any more value to anyone than ID since neither one have been proven.
No theory of abiogenesis has been proven. That's true. Each one in particular must be examined for its strengths and weaknesses if its plausibility is to be accurately gauged. I haven't seen anyone push a particular theory of abiogenesis yet, but this thread is officially a behemoth, and I haven't read every post.
Speaking for myself, I don't think we're anywhere close to certainty regarding any one theory of abiogenesis- BUT! I am more inclined to assume a naturalistic origin of life over a supernatural one. Occam's razor is a handy tool. It doesn't prove anything one way or another, but its good for cutting away highly implausible scenarios even when one cannot definitively prove any one option.
A brand new F-16 found on the dark side of the moon is quite implausible. But it's more likely that we will discover an F-16 on the moon than a unicorn in my backyard. However unlikely, at least there is a way we could imagine an F-16 getting to the moon. F-16s exist. Rockets that can reach the moon exist. Unicorns (as far as we know) do not.
As to the immortal soul thing, sure, I guess you've presented Biblical justification for believing in it... not that I really care. Maybe it indicates that I should stick to speaking on other matters (like things that actually exist in the real world) and leave the believers to debate Biblical claims.
Anyway, I'm not saying any of this to refute your claims about NDEs... I'm more so telling you why your claims aren't going to go very far here. And it's not because we're unreasonable. Quite the contrary.
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RE: What beliefs would we consider reasonable for a self proclaimed Christian to hold?
March 23, 2018 at 3:44 am
(This post was last modified: March 23, 2018 at 4:15 am by Amarok.)
Comparing NDE nonsense to Abiogenesis is absurd The former is pseudoscience which you have failed to defend . The later is a well evidence concept of biology you have failed to successfully attack. And comparing Abiogenesis to ID is even dumber for the same reason . And no your a denialist of abiogenesis not a skeptic. And your probability is total bunkum and has been exposed as such. And once again hoyles fallacy ..
[/url]
Quote:http://the-formula.org/ndes-absolutely-p...ng-brains/
Quackery site
Quote:[url=http://www.cbc.ca/radio/ideas/decoding-death-the-science-and-significance-of-near-death-experiences-1.3884084]http://www.cbc.ca/radio/ideas/decoding-d...-1.3884084
Shame on the CBC for wasting my tax dollars promoting pseudoscience
If that was your best case for the fact NDE's are caused by brain chemistry . Then your case is even weaker then i thought .
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RE: What beliefs would we consider reasonable for a self proclaimed Christian to hold?
March 23, 2018 at 5:45 am
(March 23, 2018 at 1:11 am)He lives Wrote: (March 22, 2018 at 10:04 pm)Grandizer Wrote: But the accident isn't necessarily an example of a supernatural event, and neither are the experiences of NDE necessarily examples of a supernatural event. You still need to provide the evidence that NDEs are due to supernatural phenomena. I've yet to see this evidence that clearly points to such things and is not easily accounted for by naturalistic explanations.
So far there is no proof of either out of body experiences or biogenesis.
You got that right. There is proof for neither out-of-body experiences nor biogenesis (which is the postulation that life only arises from other forms of life). Glad we agree.
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RE: What beliefs would we consider reasonable for a self proclaimed Christian to hold?
March 23, 2018 at 2:01 pm
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RE: What beliefs would we consider reasonable for a self proclaimed Christian to hold?
March 23, 2018 at 2:09 pm
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RE: What beliefs would we consider reasonable for a self proclaimed Christian to hold?
March 23, 2018 at 2:09 pm
(This post was last modified: March 23, 2018 at 2:12 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Did you just try to sell the absurd notion that aurochs....cattle.......were unicorns? The KJV doesn't seem to have any trouble calling cattle cattle anywhere else.
Air, btw, is translucent..which is a partially opaque state. It's why we're in the blue.
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RE: What beliefs would we consider reasonable for a self proclaimed Christian to hold?
March 23, 2018 at 2:33 pm
(March 23, 2018 at 3:44 am)Tizheruk Wrote: Comparing NDE nonsense to Abiogenesis is absurd The former is pseudoscience which you have failed to defend . The later is a well evidence concept of biology you have failed to successfully attack. And comparing Abiogenesis to ID is even dumber for the same reason . And no your a denialist of abiogenesis not a skeptic. And your probability is total bunkum and has been exposed as such. And once again hoyles fallacy ..
[/url]
Quote:http://the-formula.org/ndes-absolutely-p...ng-brains/
Quackery site
Quote:[url=http://www.cbc.ca/radio/ideas/decoding-death-the-science-and-significance-of-near-death-experiences-1.3884084]http://www.cbc.ca/radio/ideas/decoding-d...-1.3884084
Shame on the CBC for wasting my tax dollars promoting pseudoscience
If that was your best case for the fact NDE's are caused by brain chemistry . Then your case is even weaker then i thought .
Too much time and money has been wasted on abiogenesis. There is no verifiable evidence for abiogenesis. It is leading people down a dead end road.
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RE: What beliefs would we consider reasonable for a self proclaimed Christian to hold?
March 23, 2018 at 2:36 pm
(March 23, 2018 at 2:33 pm)He lives Wrote: Too much time and money has been wasted on abiogenesis. There is no verifiable evidence for abiogenesis. It is leading people down a dead end road.
Wrong about that.
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RE: What beliefs would we consider reasonable for a self proclaimed Christian to hold?
March 23, 2018 at 2:43 pm
(March 23, 2018 at 1:11 am)He lives Wrote: (March 22, 2018 at 9:35 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: As I said before Heisenberg did not say that. It was from Heinz Otremba. But your article might be forgiven for citing Heisenberg. It's commonly misattributed to him...
Much snipped for focus.
Quote:...I agree with your points and your argument. However by agreeing I would like to point out that everyone should also be skeptical about abiogenesis as there is no solid evidence to it's extraordinary claims that life began from some hypothetical primordial soup that was thought to exist on the pre life earth. This sounds too much like the fictional story of Frankenstein. At least in the story of Frankenstein body parts were used to bring him to life. You may say that life on earth is evidence of abiogenesis. However life on earth can also be used as evidence of intelligent design. In fact I am very much a skeptic of abiogenesis. The chances of the biogenesis Hypothesis ever happening are 1 in 10 to the 40,000th power. It would be more likely to find a brand new F-16 on the dark side of the moon. I therefore would like to know why anyone would trust in the abiogenesis hypothesis?I don't see it as being of any more value to anyone than ID since neither one have been proven.
Aaaaand here is the reset!
Abiogenesis has not appeared once in the last eleven pages but our new troll is taking a hammering so he reintroduces it now by way of a distraction. Classic troll manoeuvre and oh so fucking obvious.
It's amazing 'science' always seems to 'find' whatever it is funded for, and never the oppsite. Drich.
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RE: What beliefs would we consider reasonable for a self proclaimed Christian to hold?
March 23, 2018 at 2:45 pm
(This post was last modified: March 23, 2018 at 2:45 pm by Drich.)
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