SCOTUS Tells Anti-Abortion Nuts To Go Fuck Themselves

[John V]

There you go again, lol.  I don't see a fetus as a human being, but it hardly matters whether or not I did, because even classifying a fetus as a human being wouldn;t be enough to overturn roe v wade...and personally...I don't think a fetus has to be a human being to be worth carrying to term to be one.

Maybe that;s why I have so many kids, huh? 

What, you think you deserve punishment for your views?

[The Grand Nudger]

Bob Saget!

[Amarok]

It's not a consequence in that sense either...unless you turn it into a punishment by criminalizing the procedure.

Are you really trying to discuss reproductive rights with me, by reference to an online dictionary?

I think Beta is trying to copy Huggy's style. We all know how he loves to condense complex issues into a dictionary definition.

---

There you go again, lol.  I don't see a fetus as a human being, but it hardly matters whether or not I did, because even classifying a fetus as a human being wouldn;t be enough to overturn roe v wade...and personally...I don't think a fetus has to be a human being to be worth carrying to term to be one.

Maybe that;s why I have so many kids, huh?  But you do you, continue to misapprehend the issue and your opposition....I'm sure that will work, someday.  You may not like being recognized as an ignorant slut shamer looking to settle for hypocrisy in the absence of an argument....but, unfortunately, the shoe fits.

This

[Brian37]

There you go again, lol.  I don't see a fetus as a human being, but it hardly matters whether or not I did, because even classifying a fetus as a human being wouldn;t be enough to overturn roe v wade...and personally...I don't think a fetus has to be a human being to be worth carrying to term to be one.

Maybe that;s why I have so many kids, huh? 

What, you think you deserve punishment for your views?

Nope idiot, sorry. It takes TWO people to be involved in the medical procedure of an abortion, the patient is part of it as well. If you are going to punish the doctor and call them a murderer, then you should apply that equally to the female. OTHERWISE you are being a FUCKING HYPOCRITE! 

Now ASSHOLE, you tell everyone here what you think the punishment for the female should be. And remember this isn't Iran or Saudi Arabia and we are NOT a theocracy.

[GrandizerII]

Me personally, I don't care if a fetus is considered a human being or not. There's a far more important point to consider in the abortion debate than the so-called humanity of something that relies on someone else's bodily resources for its survival. If women are allowed to be treated as fully human beings just like men, then they should have the right to be in full control of their reproductive rights. It would otherwise be a violation of her rights to demand she carry an unwanted fetus inside her own body all the way through to the end just to make some assholes happy (and at the expense of her own happiness), and it wouldn't be much better than slavery.

In short, fetuses I have neutral feelings about. If the mother wants a baby, good for her and good for the would-be baby. If the woman, on the other hand, never wanted the baby, then the right thing to do is to respect that and let her make her own choices regarding her own body, as a totally free human being with rights just like every one of us, and worthy of being treated with basic respect and dignity (like every one of us). Anyone who demands that women not exercise full reproductive rights is most often being selfish and egocentric, only looking at things from their own perspective with ill regard for other people's wellbeing, while deluding themselves into thinking they give two shits about a fetus residing in a stranger woman's body. And more often than not, it's for religious and/or political reasons, NOT for humanitarian reasons.

FTR, just so nobody misconstrues me here, I regard LFC as one of the exceptions here. I don't for a second believe she holds her stance on this for the same reasons assholes do.

[The Grand Nudger]

I don;t even give this issue the unwarranted credence of being "complex" - because it's not.  People may have complex views and differing opinions..but they are irrelevant, as the issue is not one regarding the contents of our views or opinions but whether or not we have the right or any reason to leverage the terrible power of the state in order to impose those views on others.  

We don't.  That's pretty simple..and that's the entirety of the issue.

[LadyForCamus]

What am I missing here? You put that same expectation on others - the only difference is in timing. Take the rationale you use for your position at 20 weeks and simply move it forward.

What are you talking about?  Just because I see a 20+ week abortion as a moral dilemma doesn’t mean that I’m placing expectations on when and how women should be having sex.  What is it with you guys and binary thinking?  It’s possible to feel sympathy and empathy for the infant and the woman in that situation, without thinking to myself, “well, she knew what the risks were. She got herself into this mess.”  

Yes, I've noted contraception myself. LFC has a problem because there's not a 100% guarantee, although there rarely is in life.

I feel like we’re talking past each other. I have no problem with the fact that contraception is fallible. The point I’m attempting to make is that we seem to both agree that people are going to have sex (hopefully safely as possible) in spite of the known risk of pregnancy, and that preaching ‘abstinence only’ is a waste of time. The data reflect this.  

Where we differ is that you believe (I think) that the option of abortion post-conception should be prohibited except in cases of rape and incest. Correct me if I’m wrong. 

I, OTOH, don’t think we should be quite so restrictive. I think the issue deserves more consideration than that.  That is my personal, individual moral judgement, and I understand that people disagree.  I’m open to dialogue on the subject.

What I do see as an objective problem with the abortion debate is people who just want to circle back to the sex and say, “Well, you knew there was a chance this might happen.” That is an irrelevant point, considering we know for a fact that fear of pregnancy doesn’t deter people from having sex, and it doesn’t prevent unwanted pregnancies. It’s essentially a red herring used to detract from productive dialogue regarding the morality or immorality of abortion.

I don’t think people should abstain from sex out of such a fear, and I think that women should have options.

Okay.  Finally.  What types of options do you personally think are most fair and moral in such a situation, and why?

Now you're just a fucking liar.

Well, okay then!

That's her whole shtick.

Oh, please. You and RR don’t even see eye to eye on the subject. Maybe discussing your own disagreement would be more productive than empty peanut gallery comments.

---

IMO, it expresses the fundamental disconnect between camps on this position.  You;re not going to find many people who consider an abortion to be the best possible outcome of any sexual encounter.  This is why bitching about "consequences" is pointless.  Abortion isn't made legal or illegal on the basis of conception being a "consequence" of sex..and it isn't in any relevant sense a consequence anyway....unless the law is made to turn it into one.  

Yep, and that indicates that you and the others crying slut-shaming are doing so as a red herring.

The fundamental disconnect between camps is that one camp sees the fetus as a human being, and the other doesn't.

In this specific case LFC agrees with the first camp after a point, yet cries slut-shamer just like those in the second camp. That's the interesting thing that I'm trying to understand.

And on that point: @LFC, if someone who supports abortion past 20 weeks called you a slut shamer, how would you respond?

What on earth are you taking about?!  It’s like you are incapable of talking about unwanted pregnancies without the notion of blame attached to them, lol. I am not slut-shaming a women for wanting an abortion, even if I believe that abortion would be immoral.  Why is this concept so hard for you to grasp?  Religious folk seem to have a terrible time discerning shades of grey.

[Amarok]

What, you think you deserve punishment for your views?

Nope idiot, sorry. It takes TWO people to be involved in the medical procedure of an abortion, the patient is part of it as well. If you are going to punish the doctor and call them a murderer, then you should apply that equally to the female. OTHERWISE you are being a FUCKING HYPOCRITE! 

Now ASSHOLE, you tell everyone here what you think the punishment for the female should be. And remember this isn't Iran or Saudi Arabia and we are NOT a theocracy.

In fact your going to have to blame her more . As she is technically the instigator of the "murder" . But of course Anti choice  Anti anatomy  slut shamers like Beta won't treat the perp in a manor he would treat any other murderer . Which makes his crowing about abortion being "murder" total hollow.

[LadyForCamus]

Me personally, I don't care if a fetus is considered a human being or not. There's a far more important point to consider in the abortion debate than the so-called humanity of something that relies on someone else's bodily resources for its survival. If women are allowed to be treated as fully human beings just like men, then they should have the right to be in full control of their reproductive rights. It would otherwise be a violation of her rights to demand she carry an unwanted fetus inside her own body all the way through to the end just to make some assholes happy (and at the expense of her own happiness), and it wouldn't be much better than slavery.

In short, fetuses I have neutral feelings about. If the mother wants a baby, good for her and good for the would-be baby. If the woman, on the other hand, never wanted the baby, then the right thing to do is to respect that and let her make her own choices regarding her own body, as a totally free human being with rights just like every one of us, and worthy of being treated with basic respect and dignity (like every one of us). Anyone who demands that women not exercise full reproductive rights is most often being selfish and egocentric, only looking at things from their own perspective with ill regard for other people's wellbeing, while deluding themselves into thinking they give two shits about a fetus residing in a stranger woman's body. And more often than not, it's for religious and/or political reasons, NOT for humanitarian reasons.

FTR, just so nobody misconstrues me here, I regard LFC as one of the exceptions here. I don't for a second believe she holds her stance on this for the same reasons assholes do.

Thank you, Grand.  I was merely offering a personal opinion based on my own moral judgements.  I base these judgements off of the fact that human fetal development is the cumulative effect of a series of gradations over a span of time, and that there is a qualitative difference between a zygote and a six month old fetus. I have a personal, moral objection to ending the life of the latter based on what I know of human fetal development at this stage, but I also understand that my objection may not be 100% objective, and as Khem mentioned, it may not have purchase in the actual world.  Perhaps there is no solution to (what I see as) this moral dilemma; at least not one that we can put a bow on and feel good about.  Noone’s long game is abortion.  Maybe I’m on the wrong side by being in favor of 20 week bans.  I don’t know.  I was just trying to open up that discussion.

But Ofc, Alpha is using a false charge of hypocrisy to try and push me either all in or all out.  Religious folk seem to have a hard time noticing anything in between.

[Brian37]

Nope idiot, sorry. It takes TWO people to be involved in the medical procedure of an abortion, the patient is part of it as well. If you are going to punish the doctor and call them a murderer, then you should apply that equally to the female. OTHERWISE you are being a FUCKING HYPOCRITE! 

Now ASSHOLE, you tell everyone here what you think the punishment for the female should be. And remember this isn't Iran or Saudi Arabia and we are NOT a theocracy.

In fact your going to have to blame her more . As she is technically the instigator of the "murder" . But of course Anti choice  Anti anatomy  slut shamers like Beta won't treat the perp in a manor he would treat any other murderer . Which makes his crowing about abortion being "murder" total hollow.

Well this also masks sexism too. It treats women as being fragile and in of needing to be controlled and being incapable of being equal to men. But again, that is to be expected considering the times the book was written in. 

Yep. It has nothing to do with protecting life and everything to do with controlling women. Otherwise you are right, to be logically consistent she started the murder plot by seeking help in the murder.

Truth is they really don't care about either the female or the fetus or what happens to either. This is just antiquated religious logic on their part.

Let me add, the other bullshit inconsistency coming from that side is that of our allies. If they insist on calling abortion murder, then to be logically consistent they should demand we go to war with our ally Israel, 99.9 percent of Europe, England and Canada and Australia and Japan. 

So the truth is, this has nothing to do with being pro life and everything to do with being stuck in the dark ages.