The believer seems to know god better than he knows himself

[Mystic]

What you said is true with regards to all religions because we don't asses proofs and insights through reflection and give everything in the religion it's proper due reflection and see if it is proven or not. We go by a gut fuzzy feeling. This is why Islam is a big mess. This is why every religion is a big mess.

Now whether the founders of all religions taught to do what their followers ended up believing and doing, that's a good question.

Easy to dismiss there being a way to know just because 99.99999% of humans are confused.

I don't know the way to know at the moment but I intend to find out.

---

Everyone wants proof that God exists.  I can only share how God has proven to me that there are proofs here. The real results are personal.  If someone has a valid experience or interaction with God, no one has any authority to dispute it.  Most of you who express anger against God are probably justified considering the condition of the world and the witness in the books that have so much anger and contradiction.  I went there before and got angry too. Still, a loving God does exist and you shall have your proof if you want it.  This will be a personal journey though as only you will recognize that God is indeed trying to communicate to you.  Any takers?

I believe in God and believe there is many proofs for his existence, the type of knowledge of God was more about what God commands, likes or dislikes, about his pleasure.

I'm not an Atheist and will knowing I get disrespect for it, will say I am certain of God's existence, actually, a very high level of certainty.

What I'm not certain about is who God is, I am certain there is a Creator worthy of worship, I just not certain of the direction I am on is towards him nor do I take in this age anyone's claim they are guided to him seriously or that they represent him seriously.


I don't know myself as in I don't who I am, but I do know I exist and I know God exists in the same way but like wise don't who he is.

That said I do believe in Quran but don't know if I have recited and understood properly, believe in Mohammad but don't if I recognize his light, and believe in the 12 proofs of God that followed that were the true Kings of the world, the 12 guiding Captains foretold.


I hope you know where I'm coming from now.

[Ravenshire]

Everyone wants proof that God exists.  I can only share how God has proven to me that there are proofs here. The real results are personal.  If someone has a valid experience or interaction with God, no one has any authority to dispute it.

We have every right to dispute it when your gawd refuses to show itself in any tangible way.

Most of you who express anger against God are probably justified considering the condition of the world and the witness in the books that have so much anger and contradiction.

We're no more angry at your gawd than we are angry at Dearth Vader or Lord Voldemort. The anger you see is directed at the fuck-wits who claim to have the answers but are simply full of shit.

I went there before and got angry too. Still, a loving God does exist and you shall have your proof if you want it.  This will be a personal journey though as only you will recognize that God is indeed trying to communicate to you.  Any takers?

What of those of us who sought your gawd? Got down on bended knee and prayed only to receive a great big helping of fuck-all in reply? There may be some creator god that spun it all up, but if so, it fucked off a loooooooong time ago. Your christer gawd is nothing but air, fairy dust and magical thinking.

[Minimalist]

The real results are personal.

Which is evidence of your capacity for self-delusion.

You need to ask yourself why it is so important for you to think that the so-called creator of the universe gives a flying fuck about you.

[RDK1]

There a tremendous disparity between principles shown to us in this world. Good and evil have been on display to us for our whole life, and we are left wondering if we even have to choose at all. We all know about choices and most will realize the benefit or cost for those choices. This is not the guilt and punishment game you have seen before. It is about the results of choices that you make that cause you and others hurt. It is easy to discard good ideas if they have threats or garbage associated with them. The reward I am sharing has been displaced by the feelings of abandonment, fear, anger, etc. that naturally occur when you feel you have been cheated. Let me explain why bad things happen in this world. God intended for the world to be swept away with evil, but only to prove a point. He has allowed for us to fall away with guilt and shame so that we could realize that He loves us in spite of those things. It's easy to love people when they are loving, but really difficult to do so when they are mean. We could not appreciate the love God has for us unless we first fell deeply away. Love has no depth if it only given to the good. We will value this more the further away that we have fallen. All of you are part of a family that is struggling to be reunited. Love is the reward that you will receive if you realize that God is not your enemy. It is impossible to accept good things into your heart if you have anger towards the one who wants to care for you. Love is the reward, the miracle, the peace that we should all know can comfort us and give us value. We have all experienced the penalties of our anger. Who is comfortable with desperation, fear, worry, regret, etc. The list of harmful effects is endless. Who doesn't want good friendships, kind words, peace with family and friends. The arguments against God exist because of lies that you have been told. Spiritual garbage is everywhere.. Men want you to follow all manner of ritual or obedience. This is trash. They will throw verses at you to condemn the way that you think and then shun you if you don't conform. Love is the reward even though you have done what you know is wrong. This applies to me too. I am not the good guy I wish I was. The proof that you want is the gift of a heart that you could not believe that is possible. Other more far reaching changes will happen for your good that you will confirm as real once you can accept an invitation of love. You can remain as you are, or you can accept the challenge. You will get the answers that you want, and they will be shown to you clearly.

[Minimalist]

God intended for the world to be swept away with evil, but only to prove a point.

How do you know?

Because you read it in a silly old book of fairy tales?

[RDK1]

If I thought that a message like this was a waste of time, I would not have bothered to write anything at all. I was real mad when I didn't get an immediate response when I asked. I heard all those requests to bow at an alter and got nothing. I felt the same way so I challenged God to prove to me that He was real. I was very specific to ask something that I could recognize as a real answer that would make sense to me. Ask directly for your proof. Don't expect fire from heaven or something gaudy like that. Ask something genuine that you truly NEED to know and you WILL recognize an answer. I do not blame any of you for the responses that you give back to me. I was angry too. Why doesn't God fix His mess. How could we expect good answers if the challenge was given with a closed fist. It's difficult for a good answer to come when you shoot the messenger when He arrives. If I hadn't received all sorts of benefits from finding who was standing with me all along, I would not try to share any of this with you.

---

What are those benefits? My first response was a simple reaction of extreme relief and eyes tearing up without my control. I began to see visions of heavenly things, and miracles began to fill my life. I could ask for answers to solve difficult problems and I would get answers in my mind as clear and concise ideas. With God's help, I could now see into the hearts of others and share answers that they needed to hear. All of this was not instantaneous though. The fastest answers I got was when they benefited someone else, not just myself. It is sort of like when you do something kind for someone and you get this wonderful warm feeling inside. That is just a part of what I am talking about. That and more are the type of proofs you WILL experience if you see this as a giving proposition if you try to give loving things away to others, You will recognize and experience the most wonderful rewards. I am not talking about just physical things like money or power. God WANTS to let you experience a new heart that activates the fastest when you are willing to be a help to others. Most people don't get a response at all when they propose some selfish challenge so that only they can benefit. The reward includes a different kind of closeness to people that you never felt or experienced before. Please don't get burned out because all you have seen is rejection. People are not always very good witnesses to good things when they happen. And for some, they can't always explain things very clearly to make sense. This a not a do or die proposition. Our lives just don't have the happiness in them that they can if they don't take a chance on something still unknown to them.

---

---

Everyone wants proof that God exists.  I can only share how God has proven to me that there are proofs here. The real results are personal.  If someone has a valid experience or interaction with God, no one has any authority to dispute it.  Most of you who express anger against God are probably justified considering the condition of the world and the witness in the books that have so much anger and contradiction.  I went there before and got angry too. Still, a loving God does exist and you shall have your proof if you want it.  This will be a personal journey though as only you will recognize that God is indeed trying to communicate to you.  Any takers?

I believe in God and believe there is many proofs for his existence, the type of knowledge of God was more about what God commands, likes or dislikes, about his pleasure.

I'm not an Atheist and will knowing I get disrespect for it, will say I am certain of God's existence, actually, a very high level of certainty.

What I'm not certain about is who God is, I am certain there is a Creator worthy of worship, I just not certain of the direction I am on is towards him nor do I take in this age anyone's claim they are guided to him seriously or that they represent him seriously.


I don't know myself as in I don't who I am, but I do know I exist and I know God exists in the same way but like wise don't who he is.

That said I do believe in Quran but don't know if I have recited and understood properly, believe in Mohammad but don't if I recognize his light, and believe in the 12 proofs of God that followed that were the true Kings of the world, the 12 guiding Captains foretold.


I hope you know where I'm coming from now.

---

Many folks are confused about Gods identity. I know from my life that the name of a God is not the most important thing. The most powerful force that I have come to know is love. It needs to be described to be appreciated. All religions that I have encountered have described their relationship with fear or distance, not becoming friends with Him. I have not been punished for rejecting anger, wrath or force as a means to control people. God knows everything and will direct us with love. Force and fear are from somewhere else. You can't force someone to love you back. Threats and curses don't come from a loving being. There is no benefit for a god to threaten his children to obey. Only kindness is the power that brings unity among family, friends, and countries. You don't need a religion with a title. All this brings is some kind of personal pride that you have something someone else doesn't so you can lord it over them. Love is a principle which works even if you don't know Him personally. Love will manifest in amazing ways when put to the test. No other principle will bring peace to your heart. When love is put into action, many wonderful things happen, including growth of your personal self worth and the comfort of knowing someone powerful is watching out for you. It not about following a bunch a rules that someone throws at you. It is the freedom to be something that you can know makes simple sense. A powerful leader does not threaten his children to behave. The greatest reward is when you desire to good things because you WANT TO.

[Ravenshire]

Well, it seems we've got another preacher come to save us heathens from ourselves.

[RDK1]

I hope that none of you would think that anyone here is a heathen. I am offering ideas that you can validate for yourself that are as valid as gravity. They are not tangible the way science demonstrates things, but they are just as valuable. How do you know that an idea is valid? How about a proof like adding two numbers together that total what you know is true. Science is based on that, and those simple principles add up to mean useful information. I would like to propose that understanding God is no more difficult than that. Our difficulties come when science or religion is so far out there that we can't repeat the experiment for ourselves and we have to trust the conclusions of the gifted ones. I don't like dealing with unknowns to prove things so I will stay with simple concepts which are easy to understand. To test an idea, it has to have some affinity with you. If it is garbage, throw it out. We all make decisions. Some are good. How do you conclude if it is good? You already know the answer! We all have learned to conclude truth based on prior experience. When an idea is good it makes your life and others better. To prove that love is a valid concept, look at the choices that you make. You can use that knife to cut up your food or to murder someone. It is not the device which is harmful-only your intended use. We have a Rosetta Stone which helps us with making good choices. You have already concluded that religious information is corrupted and have had plenty of time to digest that. This is not about going through rituals. The proof is applying a principle which makes sense and improves your life. You already have learned, or should have, what is right to do. You use this base information to make good choices. I have done the same thing. I have been confronting garbage for years and I am not welcomed in any church where I can start asking questions. I don't condemn anyone. I just ask truthful things. Truth is not a welcomed commodity. This stuff I share is not meant to hurt anyone. The cool part is that you are in a social setting where you can share your common concerns and face the same junk that I do. Getting these ideas from a greater source is the exciting part. You ask for an answer and soon it appears. When you ask your question to nothing, you get your answer-NOTHING!

[Angrboda]

I am offering ideas that you can validate for yourself that are as valid as gravity.  They are not tangible the way science demonstrates things, but they are just as valuable.

You give me little incentive to read your unstructured prose when you say something in one sentence and then contradict it in the next.

[Joods]

If theists could just stop assuming that atheists are somehow angry at god or hate god or believe in Satan or just want to sin so that we can do what we want, that'd be great.

If I had a nickel for every time I read a post making those sorts of claims, I'd be rich. So just fucking stop already.

If you want to make an argument for your god, feel free to do so. But stop your incessant rhetoric about what you think we believe in. Because you don't know and you'll never actually take the time to understand us at all.