Alien Question for Atheists

[Pat Mustard]

The first thing I'd wonder is how two completely isolated cultures have compatible religious experience, given that every human religion is parochial in nature, in that we can see from eg the native americans, how cultures isolated from each other on earth differ so wildly in religious terms.

And my second question would be to ask what gives the aliens the roght to inflict their nonsense on humanity.

[I_am_not_mafia]

Burden of proof remains the same. Testimony just won't cut it.

I guess the "evidence" in this case would be the crazy coincidence that an alien species from another solar system has the same predominant religion as us. Would that not give you pause at all?

To be honest I wouldn't be surprised. Only surprised that they continue believing such things and the question of why would be of most interest to me. Saying that though, ancient Greeks would be amazed at how some modern day humans still believe in a flat Earth despite our technology.

I'd be considering the evolutionary benefits of religious belief and how convergent evolution can lead to the same archetypes and ideas and how they can modulate the behaviour of a society in similar ways.

For example, they probably also have similar disagreements amongst themselves over whether alien socialism or alien capitalism is best. The common feature between the human and alien version would be the best way to exploit the available energy source and that depends on how much energy they can utilise and whether there is room for the civilisation to expand outwards. Same goes for alien authoritarianism and an alien society with liberal values which again is a choice of whether a few voices direct the work of society towards a single goal or whether all member of the population are allowed to fully exploit their skill set.

The fact that they are an entire different species with different needs and drives means that the two religions could not be exact duplicates.

---

In a multiverse with an infinite amount of universes, Deb's hypothetical is almost guaranteed.

The only credence that I give to the multiverse hypothesis is that we're living in a reality where Trump is president. It's like our whole reality has been created for a single episode of a cheap sci-fi TV series. There are probably some dimensional travellers walking around America right now saying to each other "well this looks normal, I wonder what's different".

[downbeatplumb]

So I started this thread as an off shoot from Tiberius' thread which is a question for Christians.

The scenario on the other thread is this: 

Peaceful aliens (i.e. intelligent non-humans from another planet, let's say outside of our solar system) make first contact. After getting to know them, the subject of religion comes up. They have a concept of religion, but none of their religions are compatible with Christianity. On top of this, their species made all the advancements that humans did (e.g. invention of writing, the wheel, agriculture, etc.) millennia before we did.

My question is, how would you react, especially with regard to their intelligence, and that their religions are incompatible with Christianity. Would it make you doubt Christianity, or that humans are "special" and made in God's image? 

https://atheistforums.org/thread-55158.html


So I wanted to ask you guys. If it was the other way around, how would you react to it? The other way around as in, we made contact with these intelligent beings and found out that the predominant religion in their planet is very compatible with Christianity, like it's basically the same thing. They talk about God having lived as one of them, they talk about the trinity, salvation, Heaven and Hell, etc. Would it make you doubt your position as atheists, or would it make you more open to exploring Christianity?

Given that we have a plethora of religions on earth that bear no relation to Christianity I would find it interesting but odd.

[I_am_not_mafia]

I'd find it hilarious that their religious leaders would be telling our religious leaders that a small bit of land on their planet was the centre of the universe and that the small bit of land on our planet was not.

[emjay]

Provided the similarities were not vague and there were a lot of them, yes it would give me pause, but it would also give me pause in the opposite direction, given how earth and human centric the Bible is... how would their equivalent of Genesis read for instance; "In the beginning... in a galaxy far far away, God created the heavens and the earth, and created man in his own image. We on the other hand, he created in the image of his backside..." So in that respect I don't see how it could improve the credibility of the Bible. So assuming there were enough similarities, I'd be more likely wonder if there was anything universal about that story... that it contained aspects likely to be independently reached in any human-like society, similar to how civilizations the world over, however isolated they are from each other, all come up with the idea of the bow and arrow for instance.

[Angrboda]

It would force some reconsideration, the ends of which I couldn't possibly predict. I'd have to consider all sorts of things like the base probability of God, Bayesian arguments, as well as things like the possibility that there is a third alien species, more advanced than the other two, who is going around fucking with the development of alien species for its own ends. Perhaps even a demigod? It narrows some possibilities and opens up others.

[I_am_not_mafia]

I'd say that they observed our behavior and found the optimal way to subjugate most of the human race.

I really like this idea. it would be the simplest explanation.

I often wonder why people automatically assume that aliens would only have one culture. You can't say that about humans. Why assume it applies to aliens? Their version of christianity could be one religion among many, much like it is with humans. In which case you'd have people from many different religions here no Earth telling people that theirs was the correct one because it's shared by aliens who have something similar.

[Catholic_Lady]

So I started this thread as an off shoot from Tiberius' thread which is a question for Christians.

The scenario on the other thread is this: 

https://atheistforums.org/thread-55158.html


So I wanted to ask you guys. If it was the other way around, how would you react to it? The other way around as in, we made contact with these intelligent beings and found out that the predominant religion in their planet is very compatible with Christianity, like it's basically the same thing. They talk about God having lived as one of them, they talk about the trinity, salvation, Heaven and Hell, etc. Would it make you doubt your position as atheists, or would it make you more open to exploring Christianity?

This kind of post is one reason why we love you, CL and hope you will never leave us. It's a good question and of the kind we welcome.

To answer your question, YES, it would start the whole investigative process over again. The fact that two independent civilizations with no prior contact with each other somehow managed to come up with a very similar dominant religion would raise eyebrows. It would demand study. It would definitely get my attention and I suspect it would get similar attention from the other atheists on this message board.

One thing that maybe you don't comprehend about us is that we are Truth seekers - perhaps much like yourself. We differ in the methods we use to seek and recognize truth - at least regarding to the question of divinity. In your hypothetical situation, yes, I would have to re-examine my beliefs as the situation would demand such. After re-examination, I might come to my same conclusion of atheism or I might conclude that the new evidence indicated it more likely that Christianity is true.

Either way, my belief is dictated by what the evidence shows - not what I would like to believe. We atheists are realists for the most part. Most of us are calling it the way we see it.

The available evidence we have now does not look favorably on the existence of gods or God. Change that and my ears are wide-open. I suspect the same would be said of most of my fellow atheists.

Thanks AFTT! 

As for the bolded, I actually do get that. We should all seek truth to the best of our abilities, and there is no doubt in my mind that many atheists and theists alike are intending to do just that, even though they come to different conclusions. Which is actually why I am surprised to see that so many people on this thread (not you) are saying they would completely dismiss something like this, without further thought or investigation at all.

[I_am_not_mafia]

Which is actually why I am surprised to see that so many people on this thread (not you) are saying they would completely dismiss something like this, without further thought or investigation at all.

Well for me, and for others it seems, seeing aliens that believe in something very similar to christianity still doesn't answer many of our questions that would need to be answered.

[Catholic_Lady]

So I started this thread as an off shoot from Tiberius' thread which is a question for Christians.

The scenario on the other thread is this: 

https://atheistforums.org/thread-55158.html


So I wanted to ask you guys. If it was the other way around, how would you react to it? The other way around as in, we made contact with these intelligent beings and found out that the predominant religion in their planet is very compatible with Christianity, like it's basically the same thing. They talk about God having lived as one of them, they talk about the trinity, salvation, Heaven and Hell, etc. Would it make you doubt your position as atheists, or would it make you more open to exploring Christianity?

If you mean they actually bring their own copy of the bible which is word for word the same as ours and worship a man named Jesus believed by them to have been born about 2,000 years ago, not on their planet, but in the region currently known as Israel on our planet .. well .. in that case I'd look around for the person who might be pranking me.

But if they merely believed in a God something like the Christian god, that would just lead me to believe their minds work something like our's, an instance of coevolution across worlds.

No, I'm thinking God would have taken form as one of their own species on their own planet, and had a different name, and didn't die on a cross. But the basis of the story would be the same: That this was considered "God's son" who came to show them the way and spread the same message. He performed miracles while he was there, started the new religion teaching them to love each other, and then was persecuted and sentenced to die a very horrible death for their sins. He soon rose from the dead and stayed with them for a while longer before heading off to Heaven. 

This religion has all the same fundamental principles as Christianity. Meaning they believe in the trinity (father, son, holy spirit), they do have a holy book much like the bible, consisting of writing before this Jesus character came, the story of while he was there which would be practically like the gospels, and further writing after he left. It would have very similar stories with the same principles (especially the story of their Jesus character, as I said above would be practically the same except on their planet) but wouldn't be "word for word" the same, as in like just a copy. And it wouldn't be called "bible" since they speak in a different language lol. They believe in salvation, believe in Heaven and Hell, and their views on morality revolve around love of God and love of neighbor, just like Christianity. They would have different denominations as well, but the basic fundamental tenets would be the exact same throughout, and would be the same as Christianity.

Imagine if that was the predominant belief system in their planet, how would you react?