Substitutionary Atonement! WTF?

[Chad32]

We design things that are much harder to break, and much easier to fix. He knows how to create something. He just doesn't know how to run things. Like when some Saturday morning cartoon villain takes over the world, but it promptly goes to shit afterwards.

We design simple things, and some we can't fix. We brought sin into this world and it has caused great harm and we have yet to fix any of it. God's plan is coming to fruition and will soon be completed and the result will be a sinless perfect world, eternal.

GC

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We'd fire a zookeeper who kept blaming the monkeys for his poor job performance.

So you see yourself as the monkey in the cage, interesting to say the least.

GC

Actually we've improved quite a bit over a long time. If anything has been holding us back, it's religions such as christianity. I don't see any plan of your god coming to fruition. What exactly is this game plan? from what I hear, he wants everyone to get into heaven, yet the road to heaven is narrow. So that part of the plan isn't coming to fruition. The best places in the world tend to be secular social democracies, which is a far cry from what god would want. God doesn't fix problems. He just destroys things until something resembling what he wants comes out temporarily.

Look at his actual track record. He's running heaven, when suddenly a third of the population rebels, and he has to kick them out. He makes Eden, but one disobedient act screws everything up. It gets bad enough that he floods the world, sabe for his chosen eight. 150 years later, they build a tower he doesn't like, so he tears it down. He spends a while having different tribes of people destroyed, which never really fixes the problem. His last attempt is sending Jesus down, who admits that this plan isn't going to get the majority of Humanity into heaven, let alone all of them. If nothing god has done has worked so far, what makes you think it will in the future?

[Succubus]

Actually we've improved quite a bit over a long time. If anything has been holding us back, it's religions such as christianity...

I've only just found this: badnewsaboutchristianity
And oh boy, Christianity gets kicked twice around the equator and thrice over the poles.

Christianity brought the Dark Ages to Europe, a period when scientific endeavour was abandoned and learning of all kinds was rooted out and destroyed. With the exception of military technology, the Church was to oppose advances in virtually every scientific discipline for many hundreds of years. Philosophers were persecuted and their books burned. Such was the persecution that men of learning were driven to destroy their own libraries rather than risk a volume being seen by a Christian informer. Efforts were made to destroy evidence of Greek successes. We can never know how much was lost forever. Some Greek learning was preserved because Christian heretics, notably Nestorians, took it east with them when they fled the wrath of the orthodox Church. These refugees flourished under Zoroastrian and Muslim rulers in centres like Damascus, Cairo, Baghdad and Gondeshapur in Persia. There they translated surviving works into Syriac, Hebrew and Arabic.

[robvalue]

This is just a test to see how many points people score. It's a game for god's amusement, so he can throw people into one bin or another. Why would anyone expect any progress to be forthcoming from god?

If somehow this is some stupid game, some people have decided they don't want to play and would rather make the best of the environment they find themselves in. That's when progress is made.

[KevinM1]

This is just a test to see how many points people score. It's a game for god's amusement, so he can throw people into one bin or another. Why would anyone expect any progress to be forthcoming from god?

If somehow this is some stupid game, some people have decided they don't want to play and would rather make the best of the environment they find themselves in. That's when progress is made.

That's one of the things that gets me about the whole thing. God supposedly creates people out of an abundance of love. And he gives them but a single way to join him in the afterlife, for no real reason. And those that decline that offer - whether out of ignorance or not - suffer for eternity. And it's not like god needs the company of man. It's not like god is lonely. What are these "lucky" souls supposed to do, other than spend eternity essentially passing time in a divine opium den?

The entire thing is idiotic if you think about it for even a moment.

[robvalue]

This is just a test to see how many points people score. It's a game for god's amusement, so he can throw people into one bin or another. Why would anyone expect any progress to be forthcoming from god?

If somehow this is some stupid game, some people have decided they don't want to play and would rather make the best of the environment they find themselves in. That's when progress is made.

That's one of the things that gets me about the whole thing.  God supposedly creates people out of an abundance of love.  And he gives them but a single way to join him in the afterlife, for no real reason.  And those that decline that offer - whether out of ignorance or not - suffer for eternity.  And it's not like god needs the company of man.  It's not like god is lonely.  What are these "lucky" souls supposed to do, other than spend eternity essentially passing time in a divine opium den?

The entire thing is idiotic if you think about it for even a moment.

Absolutely. It's so utterly absurd that I have never been able to take it seriously. Even as a fictional story it is total nonsense.

[The Grand Nudger]

The muslims seemed to realize that heaven sounded like crap..so they fancied it up with rivers of wine and bisexual orgies. I'm not personally willing to shittify my existence in trade for a six pack of natty and some peener...but i suppose some people would be.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

Have you ever noticed that heavens and paradises seem to made just for men?

[The Grand Nudger]

Come now, muslim paradise would be great for submissive women who want to regrow their hymen between every casual rapefest. Or I guess maybe if she;s secretly wanted some girl on girl her whole life and the man she's owned by unto eternity wants to see a little kink...it could be bearable. Depends on how comfortable she is with creepy leering.

[Godscreated]

We design simple things, and some we can't fix. We brought sin into this world and it has caused great harm and we have yet to fix any of it. God's plan is coming to fruition and will soon be completed and the result will be a sinless perfect world, eternal.

GC

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So you see yourself as the monkey in the cage, interesting to say the least.

GC

Actually we've improved quite a bit over a long time. If anything has been holding us back, it's religions such as christianity. I don't see any plan of your god coming to fruition. What exactly is this game plan? from what I hear, he wants everyone to get into heaven, yet the road to heaven is narrow. So that part of the plan isn't coming to fruition. The best places in the world tend to be secular social democracies, which is a far cry from what god would want. God doesn't fix problems. He just destroys things until something resembling what he wants comes out temporarily.

Look at his actual track record. He's running heaven, when suddenly a third of the population rebels, and he has to kick them out. He makes Eden, but one disobedient act screws everything up. It gets bad enough that he floods the world, sabe for his chosen eight. 150 years later, they build a tower he doesn't like, so he tears it down. He spends a while having different tribes of people destroyed, which never really fixes the problem. His last attempt is sending Jesus down, who admits that this plan isn't going to get the majority of Humanity into heaven, let alone all of them. If nothing god has done has worked so far, what makes you think it will in the future?

 Society is falling apart across the world, nearly every country lives with the fear and or threat of terrorism, we live on the brink of nuclear war all the time, one little slip could bring us to nuclear disaster. Kids are killing kids at an alarming rate and it seems the world at large has no answer for this, the Christian community does but people just want listen.

You are blind just as the scriptures say of the lost. Here's one for you the scriptures said that Israel would be restore as a nation and it has and the world community was involved. No people have ever been reunite in to country where they were established after 2000 years of being scattered across the world. Yet we have Israel here today, well established and defeating their enemies at every turn. Those examples you listed are all free will choices by people, bad choices that God redirected to have man in the right place for His plan to redeem us. If not for Jesus no gentile would have made it into the Kingdom of God. Millions upon millions are now part of that kingdom and millions upon millions will be added, so it's many millions of time successful, and no matter what you believe you can't change it, unless you are willing for your name to be added to that list.

GC

[The Grand Nudger]

 Society is falling apart across the world, nearly every country lives with the fear and or threat of terrorism, we live on the brink of nuclear war all the time, one little slip could bring us to nuclear disaster. 

-and in each case the abrahamics are up to their necks in every bit of that.  Maybe if yall would just stop..the earth wouldn;t seem so shitty to you?