Peterson's 12 Rules For Life, have you heard of this?

[The Grand Nudger]

PC and SJ issues argue those things - that's the platform.  You argue against the pc left and sjws.  Figure it out.

Have I argued in favor of racism?  I mean-- I haven't been getting a lot of sleep, so you never know-- but that doesn't sound like me.

I argue against the use of demographic identity to establish a narrative of victimhood and oppression, 

Imma stop you right there.  The narrative of victimhood and oppression is not based upon or established by a demographic identity..it's based upon and established by a well documented and centuries long history of victimhood and oppression.  

I'd say my view of the PC Left is one of intolerance, 

Which is exactly what you're supposed to take away from the normalizing propaganda of white supremacy.

I don't think this is sinking in. Yes, they would love for you to argue for racism, explicitly. They'll settle for you arguing -against- those who argue against racism..though. Ultimately, the second is just as effective and far more attainable as a goal than the first.

Or..at least..it used to be - but you can never really count widespread overt racism down and out, it's like the energizer bunny, know what I mean, lol.

[bennyboy]

Have I argued in favor of racism?  I mean-- I haven't been getting a lot of sleep, so you never know-- but that doesn't sound like me.

I argue against the use of demographic identity to establish a narrative of victimhood and oppression, 

Imma stop you right there.  The narrative of victimhood and oppression is not based upon or established by a demographic identity..it's based upon and established by a well documented and centuries long history of victimhood and oppression.  

Goin' full bro now?

Tell me, exactly who is oppressing whom?

I'd say my view of the PC Left is one of intolerance, 

Which is exactly what you're supposed to take away from the normalizing propaganda of white supremacy.

I don't think this is sinking in.  Yes, they would love for you to argue for racism, explicitly.  They'll settle for you arguing -against- those who argue against racism..though.  Ultimately, the second is just as effective and far more attainable as a goal than the first.

Or..at least..it used to be - but you can never really count widespread overt racism down and out, it's like the energizer bunny, know what I mean, lol.

"The normalizing propaganda of white supremacy." I think we're about one more step from getting where you're really at-- calling everyone who disagrees with any part of your narrative a Nazi. But you see, that's actually the exact technique I just outlined-- guilt by association of ideas. By drawing lines in the sand, you remove the idea of degree, or the possibility of nuanced views on anything.

[robvalue]

I think the only way we're going to settle this thing between you two is to get Peterson here to redefine every word you're using

[The Grand Nudger]

Imma stop you right there.  The narrative of victimhood and oppression is not based upon or established by a demographic identity..it's based upon and established by a well documented and centuries long history of victimhood and oppression.  

Goin' full bro now?

Tell me, exactly who is oppressing whom?

What is historical, institutional, and societal racism, how does it even work, and is it even real? 

"The normalizing propaganda of white supremacy."  I think we're about one more step from getting where you're really at-- calling everyone who disagrees with any part of your narrative a Nazi.

You're waiting for some other foot to fall when there is no other foot coming.  You have been exposed to and absorbed normalizing propaganda, and are now redistributing it.  I doubt you got it from stromfront or the kkks homepage.

---

I think the only way we're going to settle this thing between you two is to get Peterson here to redefine every word you're using

LOL, nah, he's still engaged.  A lost cause would have long since fucked off to write heartfelt poems to the Lost Cause on twitter.

[bennyboy]

Goin' full bro now?

Tell me, exactly who is oppressing whom?

What is historical, institutional, and societal racism, how does it even work, and is it even real? 

You didn't answer the question. I know that's because you feel the answer is obvious. But if you don't mind, I'd still like you to answer it anyway-- who, exactly, is oppressing whom?

"The normalizing propaganda of white supremacy."  I think we're about one more step from getting where you're really at-- calling everyone who disagrees with any part of your narrative a Nazi.

You're waiting for some other foot to fall when there is no other foot coming.  You have been exposed to and absorbed normalizing propaganda, and are now redistributing it.  I doubt you got it from stromfront or the kkks homepage.

Maybe you're right. I started at birth as a blank slate, and have built my views based on my experiences, including my social interactions, and things I've seen on public media throughout my life.

However, I think much the same as you, about you. I think the PC Left has so convinced you to accept it part and parcel, and to organize everything in terms of "us vs. Nazi," that you are toeing the party line, even where it involves a deliberate attempt to limit free speech. I think that in your well-meaning desire to minimize oppression, you have been subscribed to a group which intends to establish a new kind of oppression.

I don't think Peterson is that far off, actually. Once a new dogma is established, and the consequences for not espousing it 100% become severe enough (jobs threatened, for example, or social status), then those in a position of power will be able to abuse that fact to control the population.

Please get this point. So long as intolerance is allowable, it doesn't matter what ideas were considered so sacrosanct to enact it-- it will be used to great effect by the wolves at the top of the food chain, to keep the sheeple at each other's throats while they profit.

[The Grand Nudger]

What is historical, institutional, and societal racism, how does it even work, and is it even real? 

You didn't answer the question.  I know that's because you feel the answer is obvious.  But if you don't mind, I'd still like you to answer it anyway-- who, exactly, is oppressing whom?

As obvious as the answer is to you, I hope.  No one in particular can be pointed to as being responsible for this, if we're talking about the larger phenomenon - because it's a function of how our society and how our government has been arranged going back centuries.  We are all responsible.  The United States of America.  Greatest country in the world.  Can-do anything.  We fail to properly educate each other and ourselves regarding the subject, we fail to take meaningful action, we fail to hold our institutions accountable in even a fraction of the measure our institutions hold us accountable.  

If we're talking about individual acts of racism, discrimination, downright oppression..or the inadvertent normalization of racism..then, obviously, the fucking individuals involved.

Maybe you're right.  I started at birth as a blank slate, and have built my views based on my experiences, including my social interactions, and things I've seen on public media throughout my life.

However, I think much the same as you, about you.  I think the PC Left has so convinced you to accept it part and parcel, and to organize everything in terms of "us vs. Nazi," that you are toeing the party line, even where it involves a deliberate attempt to limit free speech.  I think that in your well-meaning desire to minimize oppression, you have been subscribed to a group which intends to establish a new kind of oppression.

OFC I'm the same as you in that regard..and I wasn't always such a stickler for this issue.  I might have a better ear for it because I was raised to be and act white, by a racist.  The difference between us in this context, is that I am aware of the origins and nature of some of your comments and positions and you are not.  

Please talk to me more about imaginary oppression.   Somebody tryin to abrogate your rights, lol?  Who told you that?  Peterson...lol.  

Free speech is not consequence free speech, none of our rights are a suicide pact...and they do not automatically overrule some other persons rights.  

I don't think Peterson is that far off, actually.  Once a new dogma is established, and the consequences for not espousing it 100% become severe enough (jobs threatened, for example, or social status), then those in a position of power will be able to abuse that fact to control the population.

Back to making excuses for the loon.  Give me my money.  

Please get this point.  So long as intolerance is allowable, it doesn't matter what ideas were considered so sacrosanct to enact it-- it will be used to great effect by the wolves at the top of the food chain, to keep the sheeple at each other's throats while they profit.

How does it feel to be a sheep of white supremacists at the bottom and the top? Not good, judging by your responses in this thread. Well...there's a door, all you have to do is walk through it and you'll be out from under their thumb.

[Amarok]

I started at birth as a blank slate,

No you didn't none of us are a blank slate

[The Grand Nudger]

Importantly to the conversation..we are born as descendants of creatures who competed fiercely (and ruthlessly) with each other in groups based on rudimentary identification like "looks different from me and mine".  To an extent, racism is built in, a feature that has since become a bug. That might also help to explain some portion of the allure and ability of normalizing language. We want it to be true. We want to be better than the Other. Our fortune is down to our merit, theirs to their laziness. We fear that they might take our things. We think that they eye us as suspiciously as we eye them. If they would just do what we do, they wouldn't be in their situation. It's on them, not us, and no one else. If they get anything that we don't get..or as much as we have (solely through our hard work, ofc..lol) then that's double plus ungood and unfair.

[Amarok]

Importantly to the conversation..we are born as descendants of creatures who competed fiercely (and ruthlessly) with each other in groups based on rudimentary identification like "looks different from me and mine".  To an extent, racism is built in, a feature that has since become a bug.  That might also help to explain some portion of the allure and ability of normalizing language.  We want it to be true.  We want to be better than the Other.  Our fortune is down to our merit, theirs to their laziness.  We fear that they might take our things.  We think that they eye us as suspiciously as we eye them.  If they would just do what we do, they wouldn't be in their situation.  It's on them, not us, and no one else.  If they get anything that we don't get..or as much as we have (solely through our hard work, ofc..lol) then that's double plus ungood and unfair.

True very true

[bennyboy]

As obvious as the answer is to you, I hope.  No one in particular can be pointed to as being responsible for this, if we're talking about the larger phenomenon - because it's a function of how our society and how our government has been arranged going back centuries.  We are all responsible.  The United States of America.  Greatest country in the world.  Can-do anything.  We fail to properly educate each other and ourselves regarding the subject, we fail to take meaningful action, we fail to hold our institutions accountable in even a fraction of the measure our institutions hold us accountable.  

You're almost there, but not quite.

We are talking about trends that extend through thousands of yours-- all these things we think are brand new, have played out over all of history and probably earlier. Do you know that Barbarian is a derogatory term? "Fucking Gallic idiots, the savages can't speak Latin, they just keep saying Bar Bar Bar over and over like fucking morons. You think just because they fought against the Huns that they should be citizens of Rome? Should they have the rights that were established by Romulus and by Zeus' thunderous cock? Fuck that!"

The whole Old Testament is pretty much an Epic tale of demographic victimization-- the poor Jews under the thumb of their Egyptian oppressors.

Even chimps do this. They invade neighboring troupes, even ones with actual blood relationships, and shred them to pieces. You just know they're thinking "Those fucking monkeys keep trying to take our best bitches. Who said they could cross the clearing into OUR side of the forest!?"

And here we have this deathgrip, this intolerant struggle between the hard left and the hard right, and it's really just pissed-off chimps with a better vocabulary. It's people rushing to pick tribes, girding themselves against attack, and engaging in a struggle for the right to define the world. I know you don't think that's what the PC left are doing-- but the Romans and even the chimps didn't know enough about evolution to see that rather than glorious winners, they were victim to their own instincts.

Now, the way to solve this is NOT to establish your rightness and make the other guy eat crow. That's the caveman in you looking to conquer. The way to solve the problem is to identify and transcend the real problem-- human instinct. When people start going off emotionally, it means they've surrendered intellect to instinct, and we can then assume that the result will be the same shit that's gone on forever. So when you have the PC Left, who make it pretty much their practice to get triggered and start raging, then though it's not obvious in one slice of time, that's where we're headed-- for the millionth time as a species.

So how do we transcend human instinct? Only by logic. Science. Math. Statistics. And these do NOT thrive in a scenario in which the truth has been forced to give away to The Truth™. We have to recognize that the tribalism comes from a lack of resources-- say what you want, but unless there really is enough productivity for us all to live in comfort, then those lines in the sand HAVE to be drawn, and there's always going to be winners and losers-- and pulling down the current king of the hill will only serve to press the reset button on the whole process.

--edit--
That's quite remarkable. While I was replying to you with all this, it seems you arrived at a very similar vein of thought. I'm quite surprised at the timing of it. Actually, I'm bordering on being blown away. You ghosting me, bro?

Importantly to the conversation..we are born as descendants of creatures who competed fiercely (and ruthlessly) with each other in groups based on rudimentary identification like "looks different from me and mine".  To an extent, racism is built in, a feature that has since become a bug.  That might also help to explain some portion of the allure and ability of normalizing language.  We want it to be true.  We want to be better than the Other.  Our fortune is down to our merit, theirs to their laziness.  We fear that they might take our things.  We think that they eye us as suspiciously as we eye them.  If they would just do what we do, they wouldn't be in their situation.  It's on them, not us, and no one else.  If they get anything that we don't get..or as much as we have (solely through our hard work, ofc..lol) then that's double plus ungood and unfair.