It's not religion..believe me. It's something else

[WinterHold]

If you think you're at the top of the world, feel like your horse is too high, this topic is for you.

Hell, you know very well that when people fought, it usually is for money or land. Religious wars ended so long ago, and with the "Mongol Invasion" that dropped so many dead, it was obvious that it is not religion that moves nations

World War 1 was the next huge war, followed by World War 2. and non of them were waged because of religion.

The consequences of these wars created everything terrible we see with our world today; from countries built out of thin-air to satisfy the non-religious finite needs and interests of mad global powers -like Israel and the Arab countries- to super weapons -like the atomic bomb-. The non-believers killed the world with a straight A+.

Europeans when discussing Muslims, talk a lot about how the Middle East was always fucked up. But what about Europe? wasn't it so dark just a little while ago, the average age in it is 30 or younger? Did Europe forget the "War of the Roses" or the mad campaigns waged by kings ?

Americans when discussing Muslims also repeat the same broken record. But did Americans forget the civil war, the war in Iraq, the war on Afghanistan, and WW2; the first use ever of an atomic bomb over civilians?

Isn't it hilarious, to see a European whining about "Islamic Terrorism"? despite his brethren killing Millions in Japan just a few years ago? I mean if you use something monstrous like atomic bombs; what do you except your enemy to come carrying? flowers???

When the American forces invaded Iraq:

[Angrboda]

[The Grand Nudger]

Hur dur, other people do bad shit, too!

Yes, we know, lol.

[WinterHold]

Hur dur, other people do bad shit, too!

Yes, we know, lol.

But it is speaking about your shit as a westerner.
TBH, your governments fucked us very very very bad. It's a royal fucking, I mean the golden stuff.

If we rise, we get shot like sheep or imprisoned and tortured. If we get hacked and torn inside consulates, we don't quite get our rights -instead we get played with like a soccer; which our cause and murder turning into entertainment shows for the average western family-.

You know very much that it's a shitty excuse, to cover a stinky list of hellish acts with a torn plastic bag xD the problem is everybody can see through xD

[Brian37]

If you think you're at the top of the world, feel like your horse is too high, this topic is for you.

Hell, you know very well that when people fought, it usually is for money or land. Religious wars ended so long ago, and with the "Mongol Invasion" that dropped so many dead, it was obvious that it is not religion that moves nations

World War 1 was the next huge war, followed by World War 2. and non of them were waged because of religion.

The consequences of these wars created everything terrible we see with our world today; from countries built out of thin-air to satisfy the non-religious finite needs and interests of mad global powers -like Israel and the Arab countries- to super weapons -like the atomic bomb-. The non-believers killed the world with a straight A+.

Europeans when discussing Muslims, talk a lot about how the Middle East was always fucked up. But what about Europe? wasn't it so dark just a little while ago, the average age in it is 30 or younger? Did Europe forget the "War of the Roses" or the mad campaigns waged by kings ?

Americans when discussing Muslims also repeat the same broken record. But did Americans forget the civil war, the war in Iraq, the war on Afghanistan, and WW2; the first use ever of an atomic bomb over civilians?

Isn't it hilarious, to see a European whining about "Islamic Terrorism"? despite his brethren killing Millions in Japan just a few years ago? I mean if you use something monstrous like atomic bombs; what do you except your enemy to come carrying? flowers???

When the American forces invaded Iraq:

Atlass, nobody here thinks we are above it all. 

Do yourself a favor. STOP letting labels, yours or others, get in the way of accepting the fact we are all the same species.

You have often said you hate the government you live under. I have said I was willing to treat you as an individual outside your government.

I DO NOT like all of my country's history. I do not like what we did to Native Americans or blacks or women or Japanese Americans during WW2.

If you point to the west and say we've been cruel, it isn't because every human living in the west is cruel, but because our species can be cruel. 

When that guy threw the shoe at Bush Jr, for example, I completely understood. But I also did not vote for Bush just like you don't like your government.

Try treating humans as individuals. 

Labels do not make an individual automatically only do good, or only do bad. Our species behaviors are not in our labels, but in our evolution. It is still up to individual humans to see others as such.

[The Grand Nudger]

Hur dur, other people do bad shit, too!

Yes, we know, lol.

But it is speaking about your shit as a westerner.
TBH, your governments fucked us very very very bad. It's a royal fucking, I mean the golden stuff.

Yes, we know.  

If we rise, we get shot like sheep or imprisoned and tortured. If we get hacked and torn inside consulates, we don't quite get our rights -instead we get played with like a soccer; which our cause and murder turning into entertainment shows for the average western family-.

Seems like it's your own despots doing that to you at present, but okay.

[Deesse23]

If you think you're at the top of the world, feel like your horse is too high, this topic is for you.

Hell, you know very well that when people fought, it usually is for money or land. Religious wars ended so long ago, and with the "Mongol Invasion" that dropped so many dead, it was obvious that it is not religion that moves nations

World War 1 was the next huge war, followed by World War 2. and non of them were waged because of religion.

Wrong, two fold. WWI wasnt the next big war after the Mogols in Europe, and after the mongols there was religion causing wars and suffering, big time.

Exhibit A: 30 Years war
As the name suggests, it lasted 30(!!!!) years, was all about religion, fought on german soil with much of europe being involved, killing up to 75% of the local population (iirc it was in total some 25% of the whole population). It wasnt not only about religion, no it was an inter-religious war between cahtholics and protestants (like....hold your breath: shiites and sunnites, that why westerner are rolling their eyes so hard about this conflict). In many aspects it was worse than the mongols (apart from the fact that the mongols never made it to germany, because the Khan died of alcoholism).

The belt buckles of german soldiers in WWI (and WWII) read: "Gott mit uns" (god with us). So much for religion not being a part of WWI.

Europeans when discussing Muslims, talk a lot about how the Middle East was always fucked up. But what about Europe? wasn't it so dark just a little while ago, the average age in it is 30 or younger? Did Europe forget the "War of the Roses" or the mad campaigns waged by kings ?

War of the roses was a dynastic struggle, and britain learned from it, thats the difference to much of the middle east, its an endless cycle of madness. Yes, europe wasnt very civilized for quite some time in quite some areas. Your point is? That religion doesnt cause wars, or because living conditions were bad, they would have been better with religion?

Isn't it hilarious, to see a European whining about "Islamic Terrorism"? despite his brethren killing Millions in Japan just a few years ago? I mean if you use something monstrous like atomic bombs; what do you except your enemy to come carrying? flowers???

You do not know that hefty discussions about its justification arised in *the west* the day after the first nuke was dropped, and are still going on today?
Whats your point? If americans bomb Iraq, they shouldnt be surprised about terrorists?
I got news for you, we had terrorists (and do have) in Germany since the 70s at least, before any Germany troops fought....oh wait, the german constitution forbids sending german troops to foreign soil to fight. We only send troops to occupy regions, preferably with UN mandates, to suppress violence and terrorism in those areas. German troops arent allowed to engage in attacks, they are limited to self defense. Guess what, terrorists come to Germany to x-mas markets and run over people with Trucks, because of...... what? We had planes hijacked and innocent civilians publicly executed by "people liberation fronts"....why exactly? What have those innocent people done to palestine? What have innocent visitors of a german x-mas market done to deserve to be run over?
Whats the purpose of killing innocent people when innocent people get killed? -1 x -1 = +1? Two wrongs make a good?

Ill wait for your answer

[FatAndFaithless]

You're right Atlas, every bad thing ever has been the West. Muslims have never oppressed or killed other Muslims with the force of an army or government, nope.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Had it up to HERE with people using the very real crimes committed by Western powers as a means to excuse those committed by others.  God’s bollocks - I come from a place where the government imprisoned its own citizens on the flimsiest of suspicions (I know, I was one  of them).  Murder and injustice is inexcusable no matter who the actors are. So cry your fucking river some where else, Atlas.

Boru

[WinterHold]

Atlass, nobody here thinks we are above it all. 

Do yourself a favor. STOP letting labels, yours or others, get in the way of accepting the fact we are all the same species.

You have often said you hate the government you live under. I have said I was willing to treat you as an individual outside your government.

I DO NOT like all of my country's history. I do not like what we did to Native Americans or blacks or women or Japanese Americans during WW2.

If you point to the west and say we've been cruel, it isn't because every human living in the west is cruel, but because our species can be cruel. 

When that guy threw the shoe at Bush Jr, for example, I completely understood. But I also did not vote for Bush just like you don't like your government.

Try treating humans as individuals. 

Labels do not make an individual automatically only do good, or only do bad. Our species behaviors are not in our labels, but in our evolution. It is still up to individual humans to see others as such.

But it wasn't the mistake of Bush alone. When the invasion of Iraq took place in 2003, Bush and a whole administration had the U.K as an ally, and a whole bunch of Arab governments as allies, and let's not forget the Shiite Iraqies who were the replacement of Saddam Hussein.

The American people didn't move until the economical aftermath broke their back; because of the unjust war and the sectarian disaster the U.S caused in Iraq.

Let's be straight about this: the west stood with the two components that set the Middle East to flames: the Shiites in Iraq, and the Wahhabi Sunnies in Saudi Arabia. The support the U.S gave to these to components was behind their terrible crimes in the region for so long, that if somebody is willing to research what I'm saying.

Where were the American public from this unjust turn of events, caused by their government of choice? the one and only part gaining from the war between Sunnies and Shiites is the western powers, and the missionaries keeping the iron heated.

Even today in 2018, the American public repeats the same action by voting Trump.
It's not a blame game Brian; I do treat everyone as an individual, I don't blame you or label you or judge you. But your labeling of yourself is what I mostly take: you are a human born in the U.S, that doesn't mean you are pro Bush or Trump.

But the last elections show that so many there are not like you. Almost a majority.
And the case of Kashoggi is another evidence

---

If we rise, we get shot like sheep or imprisoned and tortured. If we get hacked and torn inside consulates, we don't quite get our rights -instead we get played with like a soccer; which our cause and murder turning into entertainment shows for the average western family-.

Seems like it's your own despots doing that to you at present, but okay.

Supported by the west, especially the Republic zionist regime of Trump -which was favored by almost an Evangelical majority and almost an American majority-.

Populism is the new way, they say