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RE: Someone Explain This 'Shutdown' to Me?
January 9, 2019 at 4:55 pm
(This post was last modified: January 9, 2019 at 5:08 pm by Anomalocaris.)
(January 9, 2019 at 4:36 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: (January 9, 2019 at 4:28 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: Whether trump could have committed treason to a large degree depend on interpretation of the word “enemies”. If the interpretation is broad, then trump can fry, or preferable end in a manner much much more prolonged and continuously unpleasant.
Actually, 'enemies' is legally defined (as regards treason), so there isn't a lot of room for interpretation.
But don't get me wrong - Trump is an absolutely vile, corrupt president, and few things would make me happier than to see him frog-marched out of office. But treason? Nope, not yet.
Boru
I think the definition of enemies is not as clear cut as those who reasonable would wish the definition to be clear cut thinks.
The definition of enemies is generally taken to mean parties with whom the US is in ether a declared state of war, or in open war.
An declaration of war can certainly be retroactive, as some declarations of war in American history has been. Notably American declaration of war against japan after Pearl Harbor was retroactive to the attack on Pearl Harbor itself.
So it is certainly possible for the US to declare today a state of has existed with Russia since the day before yesterday, thus what trump did yesterday to give aid and comfort to Russia was treason.
The question is what can be spun as a plausible causus belli the day before yesterday and thus the declaration of war itself can be made to seem legitimate. This is all very banana-republicky, but we are living in a banana republic now, and it does not seem nearly as improbable now as it did two years ago that the US will attain that level of banana-ness in the future.
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RE: Someone Explain This 'Shutdown' to Me?
January 9, 2019 at 7:10 pm
(January 9, 2019 at 4:55 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: (January 9, 2019 at 4:36 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Actually, 'enemies' is legally defined (as regards treason), so there isn't a lot of room for interpretation.
But don't get me wrong - Trump is an absolutely vile, corrupt president, and few things would make me happier than to see him frog-marched out of office. But treason? Nope, not yet.
Boru
I think the definition of enemies is not as clear cut as those who reasonable would wish the definition to be clear cut thinks.
The definition of enemies is generally taken to mean parties with whom the US is in ether a declared state of war, or in open war.
An declaration of war can certainly be retroactive, as some declarations of war in American history has been. Notably American declaration of war against japan after Pearl Harbor was retroactive to the attack on Pearl Harbor itself.
So it is certainly possible for the US to declare today a state of has existed with Russia since the day before yesterday, thus what trump did yesterday to give aid and comfort to Russia was treason.
The question is what can be spun as a plausible causus belli the day before yesterday and thus the declaration of war itself can be made to seem legitimate. This is all very banana-republicky, but we are living in a banana republic now, and it does not seem nearly as improbable now as it did two years ago that the US will attain that level of banana-ness in the future.
Some legal opinions hold that charging Trump with treason would be tantamount to a declaration of war, which strikes me as a good reason not to do it. But a better reason not to charge him with treason is that it would be a shaky prosecution at best, especially as there are so many, many other things to charge him with which stand a much better chance of holding up.
Boru
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax
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RE: Someone Explain This 'Shutdown' to Me?
January 9, 2019 at 7:23 pm
That’s a bit of a hasty generalization about Jesus and Christians in general
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post
always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
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RE: Someone Explain This 'Shutdown' to Me?
January 9, 2019 at 8:42 pm
(January 9, 2019 at 7:23 pm)tackattack Wrote: That’s a bit of a hasty generalization about Jesus and Christians in general
Sorry, to which post are you referring?
Boru
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax
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RE: Someone Explain This 'Shutdown' to Me?
January 9, 2019 at 8:47 pm
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax
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RE: Someone Explain This 'Shutdown' to Me?
January 9, 2019 at 8:49 pm
![[Image: icon_quote.jpg]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=www.trackie.com%2Ftrack-and-field%2Fimg%2Flayout%2Ficon_quote.jpg) Sayer of nays:
Trump is a baby trapped in a fat adults body and currently, he's having a very expensive tantrum.
That about sums it up!
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RE: Someone Explain This 'Shutdown' to Me?
January 9, 2019 at 11:15 pm
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post
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RE: Someone Explain This 'Shutdown' to Me?
January 9, 2019 at 11:44 pm
(This post was last modified: January 9, 2019 at 11:53 pm by Rev. Rye.)
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RE: Someone Explain This 'Shutdown' to Me?
January 10, 2019 at 1:46 am
Even Trump himself doesn't believe walls can stop people
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
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RE: Someone Explain This 'Shutdown' to Me?
January 10, 2019 at 5:06 am
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