Kid arrested for not standing for pledge...

[Brian37]

The pledge of allegiance is a strange thing to my British eyes. We have nothing like it over here. It looks like indoctrination, a bit like the oath the Wehrmacht made to Hitler.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoZw9xz0OY4

Well it doesn't look like an oath to Hitler at all, since the pledge of allegiance isn't to a person. I'm not a big fan of the pledge because I think that it is wrong to take oaths from children. I never took an oath until I joined the Air Force. The pledge isn't indoctrination, because it isn't followed up with anything doctrinal. So the students really do just see it as meaningless words. Being from a culture where oaths are a super serious thing, I see a problem with the pledge trivializing the entire concept of oaths. When some kid spends 13 years repeating an oath every day that they see as being meaningless, I don't know if I can take their word for anything or not.

Person, piece of cloth, what is your problem?

The issue is having a society that does not promote blind loyalty.

The American flag is a piece of cloth, not a human being. It DOES represent the idea of valuing pluralism and the free market of ideas.  So I do not see how forcing someone into a blind ritual represents thinking for oneself.

The Nazi flag represented blind loyalty. BOTH TO THE FLAG and to their leader.

In America, oaths are entered into on a voluntary basis. In America we do have rituals yes, nobody is saying we do not, or should not. The difference is that our oaths, rituals are NOT FORCED ON US. 

To force by law an oath or a ritual is the opposite of what the free west stands for.

[no one]

Respect is not given away so freely. It is earned. If you want it, you give it. Even to children. How else do they learn?

Seems so many people forget that freedom is a two way street. Freedom means that I can do things that you don't like! Someone not standing for the pledge or even the national anthem, is in no way disrespectful on a nation founded on individual liberties.

I don't agree with a single aspect of the asinine mindset of the fucking imbeciles that are in the klan. However, I fully support their right to be such fuckwads.

[Drich]

no had nothing to do with the pledge fakenewers.. It was because the kid was being an ass afterward.... the little bastard would not go to the princple office. pledge was over and he was not complying with the teacher who wanted to get the class under way so she sent him to the principle's office he would not go. so the principle sent a dean to get him, he would not go they got the resources officer to escort him then he went nuts yelling and screaming.. so he was arrested for resisting and refusal to vacate

Don't want to stand for the pledge fine kneel and keep your mouth shut you do not have the right to destroy the pledge for everyone else nor do you have the right to protest school so no one else can learn.
https://www.orlandoweekly.com/Blogs/arch...allegiance
(local paper)

Um no. He is a kid. The teacher is the leader, SHE fucked up, not him. 

There are countries today where blind loyalty is mandated. Try living in North Korea and not standing up to their anthem or dear leader. Their public schools mandate you kiss the Kim family's ass.  Go back in time to WW2 Germany too. Try being a German citizen back then, and not raise your hand standing to the Nazi flag. In Hitler's Germany the youth were required to swear an oath to their flag, in public schools too.

And go get a law degree first before you spew such stupid arguments. SCOTUS has ruled on this issue long ago. In public schools the pledge is not banned, but it is also not mandatory. The reason forced oaths do not exist in America is so we don't end up looking like North Korea, Nazi Germany, Saudi Arabia or Iran.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Virgi...._Barnette

QUOTE WIKI ARTICLE: "in a 6-to-3 decision delivered by Justice Jackson, that it was unconstitutional for public schools to compel students to salute the flag. It thus overruled its decision in Minersville School District v. Gobitis (1940), finding that the flag salute was "a form of utterance" and "a primitive but effective means of communicating ideas". The Court wrote that any "compulsory unification of opinion" was doomed to failure and was antithetical to the values set forth in the First Amendment.  . The Court stated: "If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein."

DUMB F*CK!!!

THE TEACHER DID NOT MAKE HIM STAND!!!!

That is the fake news bit... you are so wrapped up into yourself you don't even know the facts!

The controversy happened AFTER THE PLEDGE

Your fake news is getting it wrong on purpose so you stop thinking and start looking up 1945 cases to show everyone how smart you think you are!

Here's the thing dummy, when you look beyond key words you will see this case is not a civil rights issue on the facts even though it is being spun that way by the fake news leftist media...

---

The pledge of allegiance is a strange thing to my British eyes. We have nothing like it over here. It looks like indoctrination, a bit like the oath the Wehrmacht made to Hitler.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoZw9xz0OY4

stupid piece of arrogant ..... I being 1/2 korean knew you had a pledge at age 6

Oath: "I, [name], swear by Almighty God that, on becoming a British citizen, I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Her Heirs and Successors according to law." Pledge: "I will give my loyalty to the United Kingdom and respect its rights and freedoms.



All countries have a pledge of allegiance to one degree or another. even if you only saw brave heart you knew there was a formal swear of alliegence to the king!

[Yonadav]

Well it doesn't look like an oath to Hitler at all, since the pledge of allegiance isn't to a person. I'm not a big fan of the pledge because I think that it is wrong to take oaths from children. I never took an oath until I joined the Air Force. The pledge isn't indoctrination, because it isn't followed up with anything doctrinal. So the students really do just see it as meaningless words. Being from a culture where oaths are a super serious thing, I see a problem with the pledge trivializing the entire concept of oaths. When some kid spends 13 years repeating an oath every day that they see as being meaningless, I don't know if I can take their word for anything or not.

Only to your rather previleged eyes. Were I am from, its even against the constitution to make someone take pledges. You can excuse your state of mind, by the grandeur of your nation.

It is not really patriotic. It is nationalistic. But that young nation, that once shone as a beacon of liberty and freedon still have to learn a valuable lesson distinguishing patriotic and nationalistic. Too bad, but it's bound to happen by the looks of it

What part of I never took an oath until I joined the Air Force didn't you understand? I never said the pledge when I went to school. No one made me. No one makes anyone say the pledge. I did stand while others were saying it, so as not to be disrespectful to them.

And if a teacher told me to stand up, I most certainly stood up because a teacher absolutely has the authority to give basic commands like stand up, sit down, be quiet, and go to the principal's office. And if the kid won't obey those basic commands, then someone should make their parents eat a rock.

[Drich]

Who are we kidding? My parents taught me not to say the pledge of allegiance. But I was taught to be respectful of others while they were saying the pledge. So I stood.

These kids that are sitting are doing it just to make the others feel disrespected. They are being disruptive, and a teacher has a right to tell them to knock it off. It's an issue created by bored malcontents. And don't compare it to the NFL.  Kneeling is respectful.

Here's an idea. You're a fucking kid. Respect your elders. Respect teachers. When the teacher tells you to stand up, stand up you little brat. Parents who think that their kids shouldn't have to stand when the teacher tells them to should just keep their brats at home so that the rest of us don't have to put up with them. You think that your kid should be encouraged to defy teachers and elders? Then home school them, assholes. The rest of us don't want to deal with your little fucking brats.

Holy crap.

There is no point in having a free society, adult or child if all of us say, "It is done this way, and that is all there is to it." 

Makes me hate that old Gieco Insurance slogan "It's what you do" even more.

The goal of public education should be, to teach facts, not politics, not ideology. The goal of public education should have the goal of teaching kids how to think, NOT WHAT TO THINK.

If all we want to be as human beings are lemmings, clones of each other, there is no need to have pluralism. We could be like North Korea, if kissing ass is works and promotes freedom. 

I doubt if you lived in Saudi Arabia, Iran or North Korea you'd want your own kid saying, "Oh well, when in Rome, don't spoil it for the majority".

that's the thing... children are not smart enough to be free are they?

Do you let them eat what they want when they want do you let them play with older men wh want to be their friends do you allow them unlimited access to the internet do you allow them to come and go as they pleases? If every single aspect of their lives are controlled then why is it there are no restrictions when it comes to respecting a teacher or a person in authority aside from the parents?

[Brian37]

Um no. He is a kid. The teacher is the leader, SHE fucked up, not him. 

There are countries today where blind loyalty is mandated. Try living in North Korea and not standing up to their anthem or dear leader. Their public schools mandate you kiss the Kim family's ass.  Go back in time to WW2 Germany too. Try being a German citizen back then, and not raise your hand standing to the Nazi flag. In Hitler's Germany the youth were required to swear an oath to their flag, in public schools too.

And go get a law degree first before you spew such stupid arguments. SCOTUS has ruled on this issue long ago. In public schools the pledge is not banned, but it is also not mandatory. The reason forced oaths do not exist in America is so we don't end up looking like North Korea, Nazi Germany, Saudi Arabia or Iran.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Virgi...._Barnette

DUMB F*CK!!!

THE TEACHER DID NOT MAKE HIM STAND!!!!

That is the fake news bit... you are so wrapped up into yourself you don't even know the facts!

The controversy happened AFTER THE PLEDGE

Your fake news is getting it wrong on purpose so you stop thinking and start looking up 1945 cases to show everyone how smart you think you are!

Here's the thing dummy, when you look beyond key words you will see this case is not a civil rights issue on the facts even though it is being spun that way by the fake news leftist media...

---

The pledge of allegiance is a strange thing to my British eyes. We have nothing like it over here. It looks like indoctrination, a bit like the oath the Wehrmacht made to Hitler.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoZw9xz0OY4

stupid piece of arrogant ..... I being 1/2 korean knew you had a pledge at age 6

Oath: "I, [name], swear by Almighty God that, on becoming a British citizen, I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Her Heirs and Successors according to law." Pledge: "I will give my loyalty to the United Kingdom and respect its rights and freedoms.



All countries have a pledge of allegiance to one degree or another. even if you only saw brave heart you knew there was a formal swear of alliegence to the king!

Not the fucking point!

She is the adult, he is the kid.

And others besides me pointed out why you are wrong. 

It DID start from the kid not standing. Otherwise why would she say what she did after?

She got pissed because he didn't stand. PERIOD. SCOTUS has long since said he didn't have to stand. 

SHE instigated the fight after, she is still the adult.

[LastPoet]

What part of I never took an oath until I joined the Air Force didn't you understand? I never said the pledge when I went to school. No one made me. No one makes anyone say the pledge. I did stand while others were saying it, so as not to be disrespectful to them.

And if a teacher told me to stand up, I most certainly stood up because a teacher absolutely has the authority to give basic commands like stand up, sit down, be quiet, and go to the principal's office. And if the kid won't obey those basic commands, then someone should make their parents eat a rock.

And what part of a military service didn't you you understand, flyboy? It comes with the job. And feel sorry for your great indoctrination. And respect, you should know that respect is earned, not a given. Too bad you don't undertand that. the kid wasn't in the armed forces, so fuck of with your wings.

I had teachers that earned that, and I would comply. Others, more authoritarian, did not. Your silly nationalistic rethoric doesn't fly here.

Perhaps one day you will understand that, but, I fear your pride is damaging your thoughts. Read this carefully again, Respect is earned, not a given. I guess if a teacher told you to bow down and drop your pants, you would be running for a table and put a bamboo on your mouth just to to not bite your tongue.

[Drich]

Respect is not given away so freely. It is earned. If you want it, you give it. Even to children. How else do they learn?

you spare the bull shit and tan an ass.

Seems so many people forget that freedom is a two way street.

but it isn't at all but in a very few and rare instances. because freedom is not free will. freedom is a social agreement to allow certain rights and freedoms.

Freedom means that I can do things that you don't like!

like sparing the bull sit and spaking a ass! or is that where freedom stops? or is that the line where freedom is not free will but freedom in a limited social arrangement to allow certain rights?

That is the nature of this discuss as it is a paradox to not stand for the coutry that allows you those freedoms. by not taking part in the process of freedom should exclude you from it's protections as well.

That is the grey area that makes the rest of the world a shit hole could you imagine not saying what you think about islam? in the precious EU most of what is said here could be considered religious hate speech..

Someone not standing for the pledge or even the national anthem, is in no way disrespectful on a nation founded on individual liberties.

No no nono... You were never taught why we stand or you simply do not give a shite. one or the other.
There is no third option.

I don't agree with a single aspect of the asinine mindset of the fucking imbeciles that are in the klan. However, I fully support their right to be such fuckwads.

no you don't.

I equate people who do not stand as being the left version of the clan and never call for anyone to be deported to be killed imprisoned or anytype of bodily harm bestowed against them. That my friend is respecting their rights to believe what they want... meaning I in no way ever want to physically make someone change their minds... If you could MAKE a clans man change their mind would you? if yes then you do not respect their rights to shite. I on the other hand would like to debate the issue but would never force one of you morons to do anything. I want the change to come from with in. not because you fear your state.

That is the difference between the left and the right it is true now it was true during the civil war and even to the very founding of this nation.

[Yonadav]

What part of I never took an oath until I joined the Air Force didn't you understand? I never said the pledge when I went to school. No one made me. No one makes anyone say the pledge. I did stand while others were saying it, so as not to be disrespectful to them.

And if a teacher told me to stand up, I most certainly stood up because a teacher absolutely has the authority to give basic commands like stand up, sit down, be quiet, and go to the principal's office. And if the kid won't obey those basic commands, then someone should make their parents eat a rock.

And what part of a military service didn't you you understand, flyboy? It comes with the job. And feel sorry for your great indoctrination. And respect, you should know that respect is earned, not a given. Too bad you don't undertand that. the kid wasn't in the armed forces, so fuck of with your wings.

I had teachers that earned that, and I would comply. Others, more authoritarian, did not. Your silly nationalistic rethoric doesn't fly here.

Perhaps one day you will understand that, but, I fear your pride is damaging your thoughts. Read this carefully again, Respect is earned, not a given. I guess if a teacher told you to bow down and drop your pants, you would be running for a table and put a bamboo on your mouth just to to not bite your tongue.

WTF?  He was only told to stand up. I've told you a couple of times now that no one makes anyone say the pledge.

[downbeatplumb]

The pledge of allegiance is a strange thing to my British eyes. We have nothing like it over here. It looks like indoctrination, a bit like the oath the Wehrmacht made to Hitler.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoZw9xz0OY4

Well it doesn't look like an oath to Hitler at all, since the pledge of allegiance isn't to a person. I'm not a big fan of the pledge because I think that it is wrong to take oaths from children. I never took an oath until I joined the Air Force. The pledge isn't indoctrination, because it isn't followed up with anything doctrinal. So the students really do just see it as meaningless words. Being from a culture where oaths are a super serious thing, I see a problem with the pledge trivializing the entire concept of oaths. When some kid spends 13 years repeating an oath every day that they see as being meaningless, I don't know if I can take their word for anything or not.

Doesn't it start, "I pledge allegiance to the flag" that IS indoctrination it is doctrinal.
 It does not trivialises oaths, it makes people super nationalistic and you get stupid ideas like American exceptionalism.