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Would Jesus promote punishing the innocent instead of the guilty?
July 26, 2020 at 2:38 pm
Would Jesus promote punishing the innocent instead of the guilty?
Christians seem to think that Jesus took the punishment for sinners with his sacrifice/suicide on the cross. IOW, Christians see Jesus as asking Christians to abdicate their responsibility for their own sins and punishments.
If humans asked that, it would be considered quite immoral and unjust. All courts try hard to punish the guilty and not the innocent.
These quotes are what I think Jesus would have taught on this issue, him being a Jewish Rabbi.
Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.
Psa 49;7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:
There is no way that Christians would teach their children to use a scapegoat to escape their just punishments, yet Christians are doing just that in trying to use Jesus as their scapegoat.
Regards
DL
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RE: Would Jesus promote punishing the innocent instead of the guilty?
July 26, 2020 at 2:48 pm
Depends, if they were from Narnia or Hanalei, Jesus would abracadabra them to Mordor.
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RE: Would Jesus promote punishing the innocent instead of the guilty?
July 26, 2020 at 2:51 pm
Jesus was not a jewish rabbi. The character in magic book says whatever it's cultists wanted it to say. That's how characters in magic books work.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Would Jesus promote punishing the innocent instead of the guilty?
July 26, 2020 at 2:53 pm
(July 26, 2020 at 2:38 pm)Greatest I am Wrote: Would Jesus promote punishing the innocent instead of the guilty?
Christians seem to think that Jesus took the punishment for sinners with his sacrifice/suicide on the cross. IOW, Christians see Jesus as asking Christians to abdicate their responsibility for their own sins and punishments.
If humans asked that, it would be considered quite immoral and unjust. All courts try hard to punish the guilty and not the innocent.
These quotes are what I think Jesus would have taught on this issue, him being a Jewish Rabbi.
Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.
Psa 49;7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:
There is no way that Christians would teach their children to use a scapegoat to escape their just punishments, yet Christians are doing just that in trying to use Jesus as their scapegoat.
Regards
DL
Your argument, and that of many Christians, presumes that Jesus was innocent (or sinless). A cursory reading of the NT shows that this isn’t the case.
One could argue that Jesus more or less sacrificed himself as opposed to being used as a scapegoat. Since he was willing to die, the case that he was ‘punished’ is rather weak. If a father sacrifices himself to save his childrens’ lives, no one would describe it as a punishment.
*removes his Devil’s Advocate hat*
Boru
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax
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RE: Would Jesus promote punishing the innocent instead of the guilty?
July 26, 2020 at 2:55 pm
(July 26, 2020 at 2:51 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Jesus was not a jewish rabbi. The character in magic book says whatever it's cultists wanted it to say. That's how characters in magic books work.
In the broadest sense, he was (at least as depicted in the narrative). All Jewish men are rabbis.
Boru
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax
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RE: Would Jesus promote punishing the innocent instead of the guilty?
July 26, 2020 at 3:01 pm
(July 26, 2020 at 2:53 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: (July 26, 2020 at 2:38 pm)Greatest I am Wrote: Would Jesus promote punishing the innocent instead of the guilty?
Christians seem to think that Jesus took the punishment for sinners with his sacrifice/suicide on the cross. IOW, Christians see Jesus as asking Christians to abdicate their responsibility for their own sins and punishments.
If humans asked that, it would be considered quite immoral and unjust. All courts try hard to punish the guilty and not the innocent.
These quotes are what I think Jesus would have taught on this issue, him being a Jewish Rabbi.
Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.
Psa 49;7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:
There is no way that Christians would teach their children to use a scapegoat to escape their just punishments, yet Christians are doing just that in trying to use Jesus as their scapegoat.
Regards
DL
Your argument, and that of many Christians, presumes that Jesus was innocent (or sinless). A cursory reading of the NT shows that this isn’t the case.
One could argue that Jesus more or less sacrificed himself as opposed to being used as a scapegoat. Since he was willing to die, the case that he was ‘punished’ is rather weak. If a father sacrifices himself to save his childrens’ lives, no one would describe it as a punishment.
*removes his Devil’s Advocate hat*
Boru
I do not assume or see Jesus as sinless.
I agree that he sacrificed himself in this myth. I call it suicide.
He is show as wanting to test the messianic myth and failing it as he did not return in those days to rule over and save the Jews from Rome.
I agree that fathers should sacrifice themselves for their children should the need arise.
Note how that prick Yahweh did the opposite.
Regards
DL
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RE: Would Jesus promote punishing the innocent instead of the guilty?
July 26, 2020 at 4:51 pm
(July 26, 2020 at 2:38 pm)Greatest I am Wrote: Would Jesus promote punishing the innocent instead of the guilty?
Christians seem to think that Jesus took the punishment for sinners with his sacrifice/suicide on the cross.
It seems that you have stumbled on a fact that Christianity doesn't make any sense. Jesus's death could have been a nice warning story of a needless murder of human life for religion and therefore that people should not be killed in the name of religion, but that "metaphor" is quickly cancelled considering that Jesus made violent threats to people, and that he was equally barbaric as people who killed him and would do same things to all people who don't accept him.
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
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RE: Would Jesus promote punishing the innocent instead of the guilty?
July 26, 2020 at 5:23 pm
(July 26, 2020 at 4:51 pm)Fake Messiah Wrote: (July 26, 2020 at 2:38 pm)Greatest I am Wrote: Would Jesus promote punishing the innocent instead of the guilty?
Christians seem to think that Jesus took the punishment for sinners with his sacrifice/suicide on the cross.
It seems that you have stumbled on a fact that Christianity doesn't make any sense. Jesus's death could have been a nice warning story of a needless murder of human life for religion and therefore that people should not be killed in the name of religion, but that "metaphor" is quickly cancelled considering that Jesus made violent threats to people, and that he was equally barbaric as people who killed him and would do same things to all people who don't accept him.
Christianity made some sense in the past but not today. When it sought god, things were good, when they found their genocidal prick, without the Midrash, it corrupted the Jewish view of god.
To Jesus, who seemed to want to test the messianic myth, his suicide was a must.
He did not know he would fail the test. In the myth that is.
Regards
DL
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RE: Would Jesus promote punishing the innocent instead of the guilty?
July 26, 2020 at 7:46 pm
Jesus is whomever you want him to be.
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RE: Would Jesus promote punishing the innocent instead of the guilty?
July 26, 2020 at 7:51 pm
(This post was last modified: July 26, 2020 at 7:55 pm by Silver.)
Let’s just say that Jesus believers have lost touch with what it’s like to be Christ-like to the point where most of them cannot be called Christians any more.
“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” ~ Ghandi
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
~ Erin Hunter
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