Is Christianity Inherently Supportive Of Slavery And Misogyny?

[Angrboda]

The only thing that's clear is that you don't know how to answer a simple question.




There is a labor relationship involved, that of my producing posts and alternately of him performing administrative tasks.  Those are both labor relationships.

If you think there is no power dynamic attached to having a penis, then you are fucking ignorant and naive.



So not all imbalances are exploitative.  At least we're getting somewhere.  Therefore an imbalance is a necessary condition for exploitation, but not a sufficient condition for exploitation.  What additional elements are required for exploitation.  Further on you emphasize that a specific kind of power dynamic is involved.  If your definition is to avoid circularity, there must be some characteristic of the specific power dynamic between labor and capital besides it simply being a relationship involving labor and capital.  (Because if that is the only distinction, what you're saying boils down to, "Wage labor is exploitative because it is wage labor."  Wage labor may be exploitative for many reasons but not simply for being wage labor.  That would be vapid and meaningless.)




See above.  What is the specific aspect of the wage-labor relationship that makes it exploitative?





What kind of power dynamic is required?  There are a billion power dynamics.  For this conversation to be meaningful, the wage-labor power dynamic must fall into a category which other relationships involving power dynamics must also fall into, otherwise your answer is wage-labor is exploitative because it just is.  That's ipse dixit and won't fly.




Why don't you mind your own p's and q's instead of telling me what to do, fuckface?  If I want to get upset, which I haven't done, I'll go there after my druthers.

With all due respect, go fuck yourself.




Neither of those makes wage-labor exploitative in and of themselves (again, presuming your meaning is not vapid).  So what about those facts makes it exploitative?

If you can't have a conversation without freaking out at me. Then really don't see any reason to continue this. Declare that a victory if you want.

I haven't freaked out at you, but I don't intend to put up with bullshit either. Apparently, you can't engage in a conversation without playing such games.

You can choose to leave the discussion if you wish, but make no mistake that your choice is because you aren't being allowed to engage in bullshit tactics.

All that shows is that you're a hypocrite who doesn't have a problem manipulating others, but cries like a bitch about employers manipulating workers.

That just makes you an ass who talks out of both sides of his mouth.

[Thumpalumpacus]

So your god is just as immoral as humans. Got it.

Yeah, there  is absolutely zero room for nuance.

That whole omnipotence thing kinda wipes away nuance. He could have made slavery a sin; he didn't. He could've taught humans that slavery is wrong; he didn't.

Kidnapping someone and forcing them into servitude was punishable by death, making servitude strictly voluntary.

I guess American slave-owners missed the memo. Anyhow, that doesn't explain why your god apparently thinks slavery is acceptable in the first place.

If I owned all the farmland and you needed a place to live, what kind of agreement do you think we would reach that would benefit us both?

Why do you insist on explaining your perfectly-good god's morality by using human examples?

Your god can allegedly do anything, except, apparently, teach us humans that slavery is wrong. Hey, if you're okay with that, great.

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As for the discussion about exploitation of labor, if you want something from someone, you generally need to offer them something in return. Of course that's ripe for abuse by exploitation, which happens often enough, but the idea that lunch is free is unrealistic.

[Deesse23]

Kidnapping someone and forcing them into servitude was punishable by death, making servitude strictly voluntary.

Kidnapping is not slavery. Stop lying and equivocating stuff. Lying is a sin, dont you know?

Your god punished kidnapping, but regulated slavery. He specifed exactly how and where to buy foreign slaves and how to trick jewish slaves (who were supposed to be released after 7 years) into permanent slavery. He also explaind that it is ok to take females into sex slavery after defeating/wiping out foreign tribes.

Havent you read your bible?

[Huggy Bear]

Kidnapping someone and forcing them into servitude was punishable by death, making servitude strictly voluntary.

Kidnapping is not slavery. Stop lying and equivocating stuff. Lying is a sin, dont you know?

No one said that kidnapping was slavery genius, the point being that you couldn't FORCE anyone into servitude. If you FORCE someone to be where they don't want to be, that's called KIDNAPPING... comprede?

Your god punished kidnapping, but regulated slavery. He specifed exactly how and where to buy foreign slaves and how to trick jewish slaves (who were supposed to be released after 7 years) into permanent slavery. He also explaind that it is ok to take females into sex slavery after defeating/wiping out foreign tribes.

Havent you read your bible?

Let me ask you something. Do you consider serfdom to be the same as slavery?

[The Grand Nudger]

They’re both illegal and they’re both unethical.

As far as the conditions themselves, yeah, they had a lot in common. Are we going to have to go through a list of every historic and contemporary form of exploitation for some odd reason? Would that reason have anything to do with the Christian religion endorsing them all?

[Huggy Bear]

They’re both illegal and they’re both unethical.

As far as the conditions themselves, yeah, they had a lot in common. Are we going to have to go through a list of every historic and contemporary form of exploitation for some odd reason? Would that reason have anything to do with the Christian religion endorsing them all?

It was a simple question, do you think serfdom was the same as slavery, a yes or no will suffice.

[The Grand Nudger]

In many ways, yes. At least three relevant to the thread. Illegal, unethical, endorsed by magic book.

I’ve got a simple question for you. Is it god that doesn’t know better, or Christians?

[Paleophyte]

Do you consider serfdom to be the same as slavery?

Exactly the same, no. Similar in many aspects, yes. BTW, this really isn't helping you. Serfdom was only marginally less horrific.

Now let me ask you a question. Why is it that neither your god nor you messiah managed to utter a single word in opposition to slavery?

[Huggy Bear]

Do you consider serfdom to be the same as slavery?

Exactly the same, no. Similar in many aspects, yes. BTW, this really isn't helping you. Serfdom was only marginally less horrific.

Now let me ask you a question. Why is it that neither your god nor you messiah managed to utter a single word in opposition to slavery?

Because we're not talking about "slavery" we're talking about indentured servitude, which literally every society has, and to some extent still has. The most common reason for someone to go into servitude was debt, do you think there is any difference to that and say, someone getting thier pay garnished when they can't pay thier bills?

[The Grand Nudger]

Indentured servitude is illegal, and unethical. You can’t possibly imagine that bad human actors doing a thing gets a god off the hook for endorsing it anymore than you could believe finding a hypocritical human would change the fact that god endorsed some horrid thing?

The Christian god is and was a slaver. That’s no one and no societies problem. That’s your gods problem. Perhaps it wouldn’t have been quite the problem it has been for the world had good and godly people not been able to stamp slavery with the approval of the divine?

-and….yes, there is a difference between wage garnishment and slavery. What the actual fuck?