A "meta-argument" against all future arguments for God's existence ?

[Jehanne]

Are photons non-material since they have zero mass?

You are unfortunately wrong.

I agree.

[Rahn127]

One could probably argue that all material is non material.

[Jehanne]

One could probably argue that all material is non material.

Matter is, typically, mostly empty space, and at the quark level, reality consists more of fields than of matter. Is God just another type of field?

[Ferrocyanide]

Simple things would be particles, such as photons, electrons, quarks, protons.

You seem to be assuming that God is a material object. What gives you this idea?

You should read Fake Messiah’s link.

Stephen J. Gould's concept of "Non-Overlapping Magisteria", which separates the world into a material realm that can be explained by science and a non-material realm that can be explained by religion, effectively turns the entire concept of religion into one big garage-dwelling Dragon.

And let’s talk about non-material objects. Numbers are non-material objects, languages are non-material objects, so are names, designs, emotions, music, literature, paintings, software.

Non-material objects have no effect on reality since they don’t exist.
There are millions of books that use numbers but numbers don’t exist. You are never going to find number 5 walking down the street.
What you will find is some molecules (the ink) on some other molecules (the paper).

Non-material things have no effect on reality:
Win XP doesn’t format your hard drive when you use Win XP to format your hard drive. What really happens is electricity interacting with atoms.

The only way for non-material things to exist is to have a material representation of it.

You can burn a book but you can never destroy number 5. You can only destroy the representation of number 5.
You can destroy representations of ideas, of stories, tables, chairs. But are you really destroying those ideas and those designs or do they exist somewhere?

So, I am going to have to disagree with you. If god or the aliens are real and they interact with our reality, then they are made of a similar stuff, or at least stuff that can interact with the forces of this universe {gravity, nuclear, electromagnetic, weak}.

And I asked:
So, what lead these people to claim that a god is absolutely simple?
What do they mean by absolutely simple. What are its properties?

[no one]

god is real, this book and my mom tells me so.



Case closed!

[Belacqua]

Numbers are non-material objects, languages are non-material objects, so are names, designs, emotions, music, literature, paintings, software.

Non-material objects have no effect on reality since they don’t exist.

Everything you list here has obvious effects on reality. Language, for example, structures how we think, and how we think affects what we do, and what we do is our reality. 

And I asked:
So, what lead these people to claim that a god is absolutely simple?
What do they mean by absolutely simple. What are its properties?

Did you look at the Stanford Encyclopedia link? This is Theology 101.

[The Grand Nudger]

Names, designs, emotions, music, literature, and painting are all very efficacious- and also very material.

[Belacqua]

Here is Karl Popper's classic text on the "three worlds": non-physical, mental, and material.

There is nothing supernatural here, so it's safe for atheists.

https://tannerlectures.utah.edu/_resourc...pper80.pdf

[Jehanne]

Here is Karl Popper's classic text on the "three worlds": non-physical, mental, and material.

There is nothing supernatural here, so it's safe for atheists.

https://tannerlectures.utah.edu/_resourc...pper80.pdf

We read everything, and so, yes, it's safe. Popper was an agnostic, by the way.

[Ferrocyanide]

Names, designs, emotions, music, literature, and painting are all very efficacious- and also very material.

Perhaps, they appear to be material bc we only encounter a material form of them:

All those things are information. Maybe in the case of emotion, some people would call it a brain state or emotional state.

For a name, you might see it printed on a door or on a newspaper or on a website.
You can have the exact same name “George” appear on a door, in a newspaper, on a website.
You can’t have the exact same atom located in multiple places at the same time.

When the name “George” appears on a door, it is a structure. It is a specific arrangement of smaller components: molecule/atoms.
It is just paint and plastic.
It takes a brain to understand the structure.
You can even take the paint and plastic and change its structure and have it represent a screwdriver.

When you go to your hardware store and are interested in a certain drill. You might find boxes of the same drill. They are all the same design.
Design is information and information can be copied and destroyed.
The atoms/molecules of drill 1 and 2 are not the same but the design of drill 1 and 2 is the same.

Hope that helps.

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Numbers are non-material objects, languages are non-material objects, so are names, designs, emotions, music, literature, paintings, software.

Non-material objects have no effect on reality since they don’t exist.

Everything you list here has obvious effects on reality. Language, for example, structures how we think, and how we think affects what we do, and what we do is our reality. 

Language, thoughts only have an effect with a material representation: the brain.
If you destroy the brain, the thoughts and language is not going to float around and go around pushing atoms.

You use your brain to control your muscles, to breath in air, to push out air and you use your vocal cords and mouth to make vibrations in air. That’s one way communication happens between humans.
Once you get rid of the material underpinnings (the atoms), there is nothing left to communicate.

All those components are made of atoms:
brain
muscles
air
vocal cords
mouth
and there is various forms of energy involved.

Did you look at the Stanford Encyclopedia link? This is Theology 101.

Nope.
We are having a discussion here. Give me a reasonable reason, something founded in reality, something connected with reality and compose the best argument that you can.

Forget your Plato, your Georges, your Simons. Think for yourself and compose the best argument that you can.