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Serious question about thoughts on theists
#31
RE: Serious question about thoughts on theists
(May 16, 2023 at 6:21 pm)KerimF Wrote:
(May 16, 2023 at 12:55 pm)Fake Messiah Wrote: Exactly. Every Christian thinks he is better informed and smarter than Scientologist, Hare Krishna, and a Muslim, but when it comes to their religion they avoid thinking about it and talk about atheists how they look at religious people.

You surely got this impression (or belief) from the Christians whom you had the chance to meet and talk.

On my side, the situation is reversed. I used hearing Christians (usually formal ones, belonging to a certain Church or Denomination) that a human has to accept/believe, based on faith, many heavenly secrets which are beyond human's reasoning. In other words, they are supposed to believe that Jesus came to add secrets (as in Pagan's religions), not to add (while having the Heavenly knowledge) useful information about how the world is designed to run (by revealing the crucial natural truths about Life's Reality).
So, it was normal for the moderators of Christian forums to ban me (usually by using a clever hidden way provided by new internet functions) when I start showing how Jesus, the all-knowledge teacher, saved my ignorance. Yes, ignorance is the greatest weakness which a human can have, and every human baby (including I) is born with. Naturally, I didn't blame any of those Christian moderators because saying that Jesus is an all-knowledge teacher instead of THE PROMISED SAVIOR (like in magic) sounds to them a serious blasphemy (after all, they are right because this is against the interests of the powerful rich people running their Churches in the name of Jesus).

Now you know why I enjoy being among atheists.

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#32
RE: Serious question about thoughts on theists
(May 16, 2023 at 6:28 pm)HappySkeptic Wrote: There is small enough evidence that Jesus even existed, but there is no evidence that he was an all-knowing teacher (nor that he as God and Savior).

I don't agree with your conspiracy theories of elites, but I do think that the fundamental purpose of any hierarchical religion is growth and control.  It certainly isn't truth.

Please tell me, does it matter really that Newton had to be real, otherwise one ceases to believe in what is known as Newton's laws of motion?

On the other hand, if someone read what Jesus says on the Gospel and he didn't find any useful idea(s) to be aware of about life, he shouldn't see in Jesus a source of knowledge (this is why almost all Christians in the world also don't see in him a useful source of knowledge about life but a magical Savior instead).

In other words, if one believes, for example, that World Peace is possible to happen someday, then he has to also see in Jesus (real or mystic) an ignorant person who was clear that World Peace can never exist on earth.

Anyway, for your safety, try to always believe what your community is supposed to believe. After all, even if billions around the world will, by a miracle or magic, discover the hidden truths in the fairy tales made and broadcasted daily for adults, nothing in what was/is planned for them will change, at best. And I will gain nothing from disturbing your mind's peace while you think that all happenings in the world are natural or mere coincidences.
Answering: What is my point?
https://atheistforums.org/thread-49852.html
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#33
RE: Serious question about thoughts on theists
@Kingpin, you must also admit that any religious believer posting on AF has to expect a certain amount of abuse, hot kitchen etc. That's why I was generally opposed to those theists of yore in their calls for civility. Nonsense, I enjoy the unfiltered expression.
<insert profound quote here>
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#34
RE: Serious question about thoughts on theists
(May 16, 2023 at 9:43 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: @Kingpin, you must also admit that any religious believer posting on AF has to expect a certain amount of abuse, hot kitchen etc.

Of course it has nothing to do with you being a pompous ass.
  
“If you are the smartest person in the room, then you are in the wrong room.” — Confucius
                                      
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#35
RE: Serious question about thoughts on theists
I have zero shits to give concerning what one chooses to believe.

It's the "holier than thou" position that I take issue with.
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#36
RE: Serious question about thoughts on theists
(May 15, 2023 at 3:00 pm)Kingpin Wrote: For all my non-believing friends.  I believe most of you are former believers or grew up in forced religion, etc.  Do you find yourself blanket/generalizing all "theists" in the same vein?  All who believe a God exists is silly, moronic?  Or do you take each theist is their own person and assess your thoughts towards them on how they respond/treat you?  Maybe it's a mix?

I only ask because I see a lot of ad hominem attacks in responses when responding to theists on here.  Personally, I don't care if someone calls me silly, moronic, etc. I'm geniunely curious if that's how you view all theists in general, if so why?

Hello.

Sorry I missed this one.

Uhm... I've never really 'Believed' the religious claims. Wasn't brought up in a 'Religious' type household.

As for treating those who do believe? Usually, it's an individual interaction, a 'one on one' that I'm having. 

Uhm... as for 'Attacks'? Remember that language is also kind of culturally dependent. In the Australian vernacular calling someone a "Funny c@nt" can either be an appellation OR an epithet. Which, if given the wrong way, can turn into an epitaph Tongue .  It's really contextual.

Hope to interact with you more.

Cheers.
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#37
RE: Serious question about thoughts on theists
(May 15, 2023 at 3:08 pm)HappySkeptic Wrote: I understand what theists get out of their belief.  We all have the right to discover our own story that explains our connection with the universe.

I believe that all religions are mostly wrong.  I have no problem with someone wanting to believe in an afterlife, but when people claim to know what a non-evident god commands, that's when I get cranky.

I was attracted by your question: "What God?".
Rare persons in the world try to define clearly the word 'God' first, before talking about 'God'.
By this definition of the word 'God', one can see, based on his logical reasoning, if such a God can exist and be useful in his life or not.


On my side, I know that any imposed law on humans is a man-made one. How I am sure of this?
Very simple, the Will behind the existence of the universe (including humans) has already planted pre-programmed instructions in every living thing (including humans, they are called instincts). So, it doesn't matter if someone believes or not in the existence of this Creative Will, he has no choice but to obey IT whenever he follows his instincts (much like how AI robots follow the instructions which are embedded in them by their makers).
For example, I was in China where most of them were atheists. An atheist Chinese doesn't need having a God to tell him 'Do not kill', he already knows that killing another human is not an act to be proud of. But I also won't be surprised seeing an atheist or a theist (Muslim, Jewish or formal Christian, to name a few) being proud of serving his ruling system by killing its enemies. This proud (or fear of disobedience) comes from following the instincts of survival because, if a soldier in any side refuses to serve his ruling system by killing some humans in war time, he would be treated as a traitor/criminal who may deserve the penalty of death, if not worth.

Conclusion: Any religion which has a certain law (or rituals) imposed on humans is surely a man-made one.

Only in Jesus' message, as presented on the today's Gospel, one doesn't find any imposed rules. Instead, it focuses solely on how to live the Unconditional Love towards all others, good or evil. Let us recall that an imposed love could be anything but True Love.

Now you know why all dependent formal Christians are not supposed to listen seriously to most sayings of Jesus, because controlling the multitudes has to be done by rules, not love Big Grin
Answering: What is my point?
https://atheistforums.org/thread-49852.html
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#38
RE: Serious question about thoughts on theists
That seems like a circuitous route to a relatively mundane observation. OFC all our laws are man made, but our possessing instincts doesn't suggest or demonstrate this. As a sidenote...how does your private religious certainty accommodate the existence of conscientious objectors, non combatant personnel, and outright protestors - or the numerous examples of any of the three not being imprisoned or murdered? Are these just moments of rare failure for the ruling cabal - where all of their schemes amount to jack shit and can't get right?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#39
RE: Serious question about thoughts on theists
(May 17, 2023 at 9:16 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: That seems like a circuitous route to a relatively mundane observation.  OFC all our laws are man made, but our possessing instincts doesn't suggest or demonstrate this.  As a sidenote...how does your private religious certainty accommodate the existence of conscientious objectors, non combatant personnel, and outright protestors - or the numerous examples of any of the three not being imprisoned or murdered?  Are these just moments of rare failure for the ruling cabal - where all of their schemes amount to jack shit and can't get right?

I guess I need to translate first what you wrote with the hope I will know what you liked to say, directly and/or indirectly.
English is my third language after French and Arabic Sad

Added:
For instance, one of the crucial instincts is applying justice (not love) on others. This is, by itself, enough to guide who are created to play the powerful rich masters on earth in defining their justice which differs, at least partially, from one region to another.
Answering: What is my point?
https://atheistforums.org/thread-49852.html
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#40
RE: Serious question about thoughts on theists
(May 15, 2023 at 3:00 pm)Kingpin Wrote: For all my non-believing friends.  I believe most of you are former believers or grew up in forced religion, etc.  Do you find yourself blanket/generalizing all "theists" in the same vein?  All who believe a God exists is silly, moronic?  Or do you take each theist is their own person and assess your thoughts towards them on how they respond/treat you?  Maybe it's a mix?

I only ask because I see a lot of ad hominem attacks in responses when responding to theists on here.  Personally, I don't care if someone calls me silly, moronic, etc. I'm geniunely curious if that's how you view all theists in general, if so why?

I grew up with no religion at all. I remember in college thinking that believers just needed some kind of "crutch" to make the world more tolerable, but that stronger or wiser people can do without that support. 

This opinion didn't survive once I'd met some very brilliant religious people, and read books by others. 

Also once you notice that there are just as many silly and moronic atheists as theists, it sort of levels the playing field. Religious belief is no longer a way to separate the moronic from the non-moronic.
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