(August 6, 2015 at 9:19 am)Drich Wrote: oh, and if you read revelation God is described as being or radiating pure light
So why did he need to create some?
god is a moron - genesis
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(August 6, 2015 at 9:19 am)Drich Wrote: oh, and if you read revelation God is described as being or radiating pure light So why did he need to create some?
A few thoughts:
The separate creation myths of Genesis 1 and 2 are probably reflective of two different traditions that were incorporated into Jewish theology, each evolving to possess their own significance. For example, one may have been viewed as the creation of mankind in general, while the other specifically related the original progenitors of the Hebrews. Philo of Alexandria, for example, considered Genesis 1 to represent the creation of the Platonic Ideas whereas Genesis 2 related their manifestation into a multiplicity of material objects. He also ascribed to an allegorical interpretation of the seven days by reading Pythagorean number theory into them. That's not to say that there haven't always been literalists who mistake the symbolism of the myth for (un)factual description, but that is a deeply impoverished reading of the text that misses the philosophical or theological ideas concealed beneath the surface, in much the same way that underlying Plato's Timaeus or Ovid's Metamorphoses are a wealth of possible metaphysical or moral considerations to explore.
He who loves God cannot endeavour that God should love him in return - Baruch Spinoza
(August 6, 2015 at 9:07 pm)Nestor Wrote: A few thoughts:Philo of Alexandria didn't know squat about Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 because they didn't exist when he was supposedly alive. The books weren't divided into chapters until 1382. RE: god is a moron - genesis
August 7, 2015 at 12:56 am
(This post was last modified: August 7, 2015 at 1:01 am by Mudhammam.)
(August 7, 2015 at 12:03 am)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote:(August 6, 2015 at 9:07 pm)Nestor Wrote: A few thoughts:Philo of Alexandria didn't know squat about Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 because they didn't exist when he was supposedly alive. The books weren't divided into chapters until 1382. Quote:In the first place therefore, from the model of the world, perceptible only by intellect, the Creator made an incorporeal heaven, and an invisible earth, and the form of air and of empty space: the former of which he called darkness, because the air is black by nature; and the other he called the abyss, for empty space is very deep and yawning with immense width. Then he created the incorporeal substance of water and of air, and above all he spread light, being the seventh thing made; and this again was incorporeal, and a model of the sun, perceptible only to intellect, and of all the light giving stars, which are destined to stand together in heaven... the incorporeal world then was already completed, having its seat in the Divine Reason; and the world, perceptible by the external senses, was made on the model of it... After this, Moses says that "God made man, having taken clay from the earth, and he breathed into his face the breath of life." And by this expression he shows most clearly that there is a vast difference between man as generated now, and the first man who was made according to the image of God. For man as formed now is perceptible to the external senses, partaking of qualities, consisting of body and soul, man or woman, by nature mortal. But man, made according to the image of God, was an idea, or a genus, or a seal, perceptible only by the intellect, incorporeal, neither male nor female, imperishable by nature. But he asserts that the formation of the individual man, perceptible by the external senses is a composition of earthy substance, and divine spirit. For that the body was created by the Creator taking a lump of clay, and fashioning the human form out of it; but that the soul proceeds from no created thing at all, but from the Father and Ruler of all things. For when he uses the expression, "he breathed into," etc., he means nothing else than the divine spirit proceeding form that happy and blessed nature, sent to take up its habitation here on earth, for the advantage of our race, in order that, even if man is mortal according to that portion of him which is visible, he may at all events be immortal according to that portion which is invisible; and for this reason, one may properly say that man is on the boundaries of a better and an immortal nature, partaking of each as far as it is necessary for him; and that he was born at the same time, both mortal and the immortal. Mortal as to his body, but immortal as to his intellect.That's from Philo's On the Creation. He also wrote three treatises called Allegorical Interpretation (I-III) and three Questions and Answers on Genesis, which, if you want to understand his attempt to combine Plato and Moses into his philosophical system, can be read, along with his other writings, here: http://www.earlyjewishwritings.com/ With regards to the fact that chapters and verses weren't inserted into the texts until centuries later, that doesn't mean "Philo of Alexandria didn't know squat about Genesis 1 and Genesis 2." But I'm sure you'll find a way to get tangled in your special form of stupidity as you usually do.
He who loves God cannot endeavour that God should love him in return - Baruch Spinoza
(August 7, 2015 at 12:56 am)Nestor Wrote: Quote:That's from Philo's On the Creation. He also wrote three treatises called Allegorical Interpretation (I-III) and three Questions and Answers on Genesis, which, if you want to understand his attempt to combine Plato and Moses into his philosophical system, can be read, along with his other writings, here: http://www.earlyjewishwritings.com/So you think old Philo wrote in English using modern words and punctuation. You are one gullible fellow. BTW, while the Jesus character quoted Isaiah he never mentioned Genesis. Being God and all you would think he would have known the Genesis story like old Philo did. (August 7, 2015 at 1:29 am)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: So you think old Philo wrote in English using modern words and punctuation. You are one gullible fellow.Jesus, man, are you just trolling? Are you uneducated? Do you know what the fuck a "translation" is?
He who loves God cannot endeavour that God should love him in return - Baruch Spinoza
RE: god is a moron - genesis
August 7, 2015 at 3:22 am
(This post was last modified: August 7, 2015 at 3:25 am by robvalue.)
(August 6, 2015 at 9:07 pm)Nestor Wrote: A few thoughts: This made me think that Christians may well miss out on certain aspects of the bible. Because they have to take it somewhat seriously, they are much less likely to actually consider the source of the myths, why we have more than one account of some things and so on. While pretending it is fully coherent and original, they will fail to appreciate the real history of the book in the way an objective reader can. That's rather a sad thought Feel free to send me a private message.
Please visit my website here! It's got lots of information about atheism/theism and support for new atheists. Index of useful threads and discussions Index of my best videos Quickstart guide to the forum (August 7, 2015 at 2:58 am)Nestor Wrote:The problem with your BS translation is that the writer is using a word and concept that wasn't in existence to sell his fairy tale to stupid people, such as you. So when are you going to produce original documents instead of BS some con man fabricated in the 1940s? The answer is never because those documents simply don't exist. Now get busy and produce them for our review and analysis. The con man had to use the word "judgment" in his fairy tale so that he could use the "J" for Jesus.(August 7, 2015 at 1:29 am)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: So you think old Philo wrote in English using modern words and punctuation. You are one gullible fellow.Jesus, man, are you just trolling? Are you uneducated? Do you know what the fuck a "translation" is? (August 6, 2015 at 8:34 pm)Brakeman Wrote:(August 6, 2015 at 9:17 am)Drich Wrote: How embarrassing for him. Love atheistforums.org? Consider becoming a patreon and helping towards our server costs.
(August 2, 2015 at 10:01 am)dyresand Wrote: day 1 - Creates the heavens and the earth. Why can't an omnipotent god have light without the sun, or vegetation without insects? Actually that third one is a pretty good fine-tuning argument for ID. |
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