Yeah, sorry to derail the thread a little but just like robvalue, I can't let these comment lie.

(August 17, 2015 at 7:53 am)ShiningSerpent Wrote: I noticed, Atheism is taking this higher meaning and destroying it to an extreme of living a purposeless, miserable life, disregarding all spirituality with the abusing of the word "science".

This is nonsense. Rob picked up the 'atheism/naturalism' bit but being a naturalist does not make one purposeless, miserable or any of the other misrepresentations you fallaciously listed above. Neither does being a naturalist make one 'unspiritual'; for example I recognise beauty, the sublime, I'm moved by music, art, dance, community, deep personal relationships and all the other things that move someone 'spiritual'. I simply assign no supernatural component to those emotions & experiences. For me, that lack of the supernatural makes them even more important and cherished.

Quote:The belief that you are nothing after physical death is indeed, miserable.

For many people, the absolute opposite is true; the realisation that this is the only life we get is the motivator for their lives, driving action, feeding purpose. You're making an unrepresentative generalisation.

Quote:More importantly it's not true.

Citation needed.

Quote:Our search for higher meaning was never answered because our current "answers" are just not true. That's why so many people are confused.

Actually, I'm confused by the term 'higher meaning'. What does this mean? I'd suggest that it's such supernatural woo that creates confusion and distracts people from the real quest for meaning in our lives: divining one's own meaning.

Quote:Even an atheist has no freaking idea of the meaning of life he just lives a purposeless, materialistic life, full of absolute nothing.

Once again, this is a false generalisation, untrue of the majority of atheists.

Quote:Which is not true. Life is full of meaning and beauty.

I agree with this but there's no need for any supernatural components to the understanding, appreciation and experience of meaning and beauty.

Quote:Humans would be much happier with the understanding that they are not just mechanic, physical robots.

The fact that we're biological organisms doesn't make us automata. Once again, you miss the point: the facts of human biological operation in no way detract from the reality of human experience. Why should we assign any supernatural qualities to it?

Quote:And that they are actually advanced spiritual beings.

Once again, citation needed.

Nicely stated, thanks Ben

I think people imagine what their own logical conclusions of atheism would be, and assume this is what atheists actually think. This method is almost always going to give bad results. Better to just ask, this is an atheist forum after all! I don't go to Christian forums and tell them all about themselves.

They don't want to ask, Rob.
There are only 2 positions ...you either believe or you don't.
I would hazard a guess and predict that anyone who "hates, dislikes or is threatened by atheism, is subconsciously unhappy with their religious position.
Knowing that there is no way out, they "invent" the opposing atheist position to be infinitely worse than their current situation. Mental damage control is a constant part of indoctrination.

Indeed! Also, (weak) atheism can't be wrong, and people don't like that.

To Ben Davis, I would like to address couple of things. First off, asking about higher meaning is interesting.
Words like "Higher meaning" , "Enlightenment" , "Spirituality" etc, are abused to no end. But what do they really mean?

Higher meaning and purpose is transcending the materialistic rush for the monthly paycheck, even Higher than purchasing the most expensive car.
It is the understanding that Humans are not just worthless material that lose all consciousness upon physical death.
It is pride in your country and nation, loving your folk, being the best you can be, and enjoying your life.

Those who are quick to disregard the spiritual, this may be of interest - Kirlian Photography
http://www.crystalinks.com/kirlian.html

This specialized form of photography reveals the fact that we have an aura.

Those who are unsure, try to perform Kundalini yoga. Try to focus on your chakras for some time.

Reality doesn't conform to our beliefs. The Truth is what it is.
If Spirituality was absolute nonsense. People wouldn't try so hard searching for it. Our lifes are incomplete. Period.

I recognize and believe in science. I believe anything that is part of Objective reality can be explained scientifically. Thus, I believe the Spiritual can be explained scientifically.

You'd get along well with my aunt. She's fucking nuts.

And stop posting links. You'll only be warned and possibly banned, especially when they're so insultingly stupid.

This Chakra shit looks highly scientific!
I'm ringing MIT in the morning to sign up for a doctorate!
Because fuck you all! (Besides my scrotum tells me I need it for survival!)

(August 18, 2015 at 8:19 am)ShiningSerpent Wrote: Higher meaning and purpose is transcending the materialistic rush for the monthly paycheck, even Higher than purchasing the most expensive car.

I already have that: I don't derive my emotional worth on the acquisition of money, goods or services. Instead I find meaning in all of the things (and more!) that I mentioned in my previous post. The value & priority of different meaningful things can change; currently I derive greatest meaning in my life from the love I hold for my sons & partner.

Quote:It is the understanding that Humans are not just worthless material...

I already understand that: humans are extremely worthwhile material.

Quote:...that lose all consciousness upon physical death.

I'm not aware of any evidence to suggest that any consciousness survives brain death. Do you have any?

Quote:It is pride in your country and nation...

As an anti-nationalist/globalist, I'll never be able to meet that criterion. Is it completely necessary?

Quote:...loving your folk...

Yep, I do that.

Quote:...being the best you can be...

Generally, yes. I'm always improving myself.

Quote:...and enjoying your life.

Yep, I do that too.

It seems that I already have 'higher meaning' so I'll ask again: why would you attribute any supernatural component to it when there are completely naturalistic mechanisms for attaining it?

Quote:Those who are quick to disregard the spiritual, this may be of interest - Kirlian Photography
http://www.crystalinks.com/kirlian.html

This specialized form of photography reveals the fact that we have an aura.

Erm, no it doesn't. It reveals the fact that we're moist.

Quote:Those who are unsure, try to perform Kundalini yoga. Try to focus on your chakras for some time.

Meditation of almost every kind provides some benefit. It's not down to your chakras.

Quote:Reality doesn't conform to our beliefs. The Truth is what it is.

This is true...

Quote:If Spirituality was absolute nonsense. People wouldn't try so hard searching for it.

...and this is a fallacy.

Quote:Our lifes are incomplete. Period.

Please can you define 'complete'?

Quote:I recognize and believe in science.

You may think you do but since you hold unscientifically verifiable things to be true, I'd question that claim.

Quote: I believe anything that is part of Objective reality can be explained scientifically. Thus, I believe the Spiritual can be explained scientifically.

So why are you not prepared to accept scientifically verifiable findings that inform us of the completely naturalistic explanations for 'the spiritual'?

Serpent, if spiritual stuff could be proven scientifically, you wouldn't need to believe that they can be.

(August 18, 2015 at 5:50 pm)ignoramus Wrote: Serpent, if spiritual stuff could be proven scientifically, you wouldn't need to believe that they can be.

he gone. Up in pagan heaven I reckon, the hammer done got him good