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RE: Here's why Creatards might be right
October 29, 2015 at 12:04 pm
(October 29, 2015 at 11:41 am)robvalue Wrote: I think you missed out ... a few steps there jenny.
Like however many billions of years. No one is suggesting cats, dogs and humans came flying fully-formed out of the Big Bang!
I'd suggest some research on the subjects of both the Big Bang and evolution, which are entirely separate. Trying to dismiss the whole of science with a wave of a hand and replacing it with goddidit is the danger of this kind of thinking. Science is hard, but it actually explains stuff.
Pool: I'm afraid I can't gain anything more from what you say than "looks to me that it's designed, so it is designed". I've tried to glean more than this, but you'll have to help us out.
actually science doesnt explain at all WHY there are different species and different organisms all living on the same earth , now if every living thing on earth was a human then natural evolution would be logical . i am on the same earth with a squirrel so why are we so different ?
Imagine there's no heaven It's easy if you try No hell below us Above us only sky Imagine all the people Living for today  Imagine there's no countries It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion too Imagine all the people Living life in peace You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you will join us And the world will be as one - John Lennon
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RE: Here's why Creatards might be right
October 29, 2015 at 12:04 pm
(This post was last modified: October 29, 2015 at 12:25 pm by ErGingerbreadMandude.)
(October 29, 2015 at 11:54 am)SteelCurtain Wrote: God as a placeholder.
It's just lazy and intellectually dishonest, pool.
If we don't know something, the answer is then that we don't know. We cannot take a guess based on literally no evidence and then claim that this guess is just as good as anything else.
Your brain is good at seeing patterns and ascribing meaning to them. So yes, you see what small slice of the cosmos you can see, and you make an ad hoc explanation for it in your brain. Try harder to be okay with the admission of "I don't know."
I don't believe in a God. As a matter of fact I have no clue what a God is. As you can see, I believe in Ignosticism.
Come to think of it though, "This is how particles interact with each other, period." - Do you really think that this is not designed? I mean like, that sentence in and of of itself is what a design kind of means, don't you think?
As I said earlier, It's almost as if someone set a base as a sort of design and the universe kind of built itself on top of this base.
Now, I'm not capable to built a formal proof as to why I'm right(aside from the fact that the reason I'm right can be observed in everyday life.) but until such a time comes when someone makes a proper argument as to why I can't simply be right; I probably am right.
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RE: Here's why Creatards might be right
October 29, 2015 at 12:08 pm
(This post was last modified: October 29, 2015 at 12:11 pm by robvalue.)
(October 29, 2015 at 12:04 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: (October 29, 2015 at 11:41 am)robvalue Wrote: I think you missed out ... a few steps there jenny.
Like however many billions of years. No one is suggesting cats, dogs and humans came flying fully-formed out of the Big Bang!
I'd suggest some research on the subjects of both the Big Bang and evolution, which are entirely separate. Trying to dismiss the whole of science with a wave of a hand and replacing it with goddidit is the danger of this kind of thinking. Science is hard, but it actually explains stuff.
Pool: I'm afraid I can't gain anything more from what you say than "looks to me that it's designed, so it is designed". I've tried to glean more than this, but you'll have to help us out.
actually science doesnt explain at all WHY there are different species and different organisms all living on the same earth , now if every living thing on earth was a human then natural evolution would be logical . i am on the same earth with a squirrel so why are we so different ?
Please see my previous post. You're expecting a one line explanation to a vast field of scientific study. Please get a book and learn about it 
You would be the second person ever that I'm aware of, since I joined up, to do so (who previously hadn't). Everyone else simply refuses to learn.
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RE: Here's why Creatards might be right
October 29, 2015 at 12:09 pm
(This post was last modified: October 29, 2015 at 12:10 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(October 29, 2015 at 12:04 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: actually science doesnt explain at all WHY there are different species and different organisms all living on the same earth Yeah...it does. There are different species living on this planet because the genetic disparity between those groups is too wide for successful reproduction between them.
Quote: , now if every living thing on earth was a human then natural evolution would be logical .
If everything on earth was one species...that would be compelling argument -against- the theory of evolution.
Quote:i am on the same earth with a squirrel so why are we so different ?
Genetic variation, for starters.
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RE: Here's why Creatards might be right
October 29, 2015 at 12:18 pm
(This post was last modified: October 29, 2015 at 12:19 pm by robvalue.)
Pool: design implies an intelligence. Was that intelligence, and the place it happens to be, also designed (or the result of designed processes?
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RE: Here's why Creatards might be right
October 29, 2015 at 12:20 pm
(October 29, 2015 at 11:50 am)Rhythm Wrote: (October 29, 2015 at 11:40 am)jenny1972 Wrote: yes im suggesting that maybe human intelligence isnt the apex creative intelligence in the universe based on science that is highly unlikely
No, you're suggesting that this universe is designed. C'mon......you need to maintain a coherent string of responses for this to be a rational discussion. We may not be that apex, but that doesn;t imply, suggest, or establish that the universe is designed. Lets say, for purpose of argument....that there were 4billion other "better" creative species out there, and none of them designed the universe.
Do you see how one statement can be true....that we are not the creative apex, without the other statement being true - none of our betters are the "creator race"?
the only thing im saying is that based on the reality of our circumstances how different organisms evolved into different living things all on the same earth , the same environment under the same sun that its very likely that there is a reason for that and its a result of an intelligent plan ..... we know of planets that are capable of containing complex life and yet they dont . and those planets have been subjected to the same big bang right ?
Imagine there's no heaven It's easy if you try No hell below us Above us only sky Imagine all the people Living for today Imagine there's no countries It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion too Imagine all the people Living life in peace You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you will join us And the world will be as one - John Lennon
The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also - Mark Twain
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RE: Here's why Creatards might be right
October 29, 2015 at 12:24 pm
(October 29, 2015 at 11:26 am)jenny1972 Wrote: (October 29, 2015 at 10:53 am)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote: It's still Paley's idea of the Watchmaker. It does not follow that because intelligent beings make stuff out of nonliving materials which defies the natural order of things that it must also be true that life must have emerged by an intelligent process. It seems very clear that chemistry allows for the self-organization of self-replicating molecules, and that the current complexity of life is ordered by very simple rules of particle interaction that do not equally allow for watches to be made without human intervention.
what would account for different species of living things then ? why monkeys and humans and plants and worms and birds under this theory why wouldnt every living thing existing on the same earth under the same conditions be exactly the same and have the same properties ? But every living thing on Earth does not live under the same conditions. The Earth offers many different conditions—cold, hot, dry, humid, high altitude, low altitude, crowded population, sparse population, different enimies, different foods, etc. so your argument, as is often the case with theist arguments, depends on a hypothetical situation.
The god who allows children to be raped out of respect for the free will choice of the rapist, but punishes gay men for engaging in mutually consensual sex couldn't possibly be responsible for an intelligently designed universe.
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RE: Here's why Creatards might be right
October 29, 2015 at 12:25 pm
No, you're right. It's too complicated so it was magic 
That's what you want to hear, right? 
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RE: Here's why Creatards might be right
October 29, 2015 at 12:26 pm
(October 29, 2015 at 12:04 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: actually science doesnt explain at all WHY there are different species and different organisms all living on the same earth
Sure it does, you just haven't bothered to understand the explanation before disagreeing with it, and you're ignoring anyone on here who has explained it to you live. That's really not our problem.
Quote: , now if every living thing on earth was a human then natural evolution would be logical . i am on the same earth with a squirrel so why are we so different ?
Do you know, at all, what the mechanism for genetic mutation is? I'll give you a hint: it doesn't provide an identical set of mutations for every organism on earth.
Do you know anything at all about genetic diversity, for that matter?
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RE: Here's why Creatards might be right
October 29, 2015 at 12:27 pm
(October 29, 2015 at 11:54 am)SteelCurtain Wrote: God as a placeholder.
It's just lazy and intellectually dishonest, pool.
If we don't know something, the answer is then that we don't know. We cannot take a guess based on literally no evidence and then claim that this guess is just as good as anything else.
Your brain is good at seeing patterns and ascribing meaning to them. So yes, you see what small slice of the cosmos you can see, and you make an ad hoc explanation for it in your brain. Try harder to be okay with the admission of "I don't know."
isnt that what the Big Bang religion is though people insisting that they DO know ?
Imagine there's no heaven It's easy if you try No hell below us Above us only sky Imagine all the people Living for today Imagine there's no countries It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion too Imagine all the people Living life in peace You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you will join us And the world will be as one - John Lennon
The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also - Mark Twain
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