(December 28, 2015 at 12:05 am)Sara0229 Wrote: I find reading about religions fascinating, not sure why cause I think they do more harm than good, but anyway I was reading passages from the OT that say you can't do all this stuff and talked about killing babies, stoning children, killing nonbelievers.....

So I was talking to a Lutheran about all of this and as the conversation went on I just became more and more confused. So if the NT trumps the OT then why is the OT in the bible?

Because we are told by Paul that ALL Scripture is Good for establishing and maintaining a Relationship with God. When Paul wrote that their was no NT so that meant he was directly referring to the OT. The idea being you have to know where you came from to know where you are now going.

Quote:I mean why have all that in there if you don't have to abide by it?

To understand what the Nature of Grace God brought you through Christ on the cross. With out that all of that would still be in play.

Quote: You just ignore it because you know killing babies is wrong?

Wow! I did not know I would ever come across an atheist who thought killing babies was wrong.... Oh wait your not one of those 'hypocrites' are you now? "It wrong for God to Kill babies, but when 'we' lable it as a woman's right to choose it then becomes ok!

Quote:But God told you to do it and it's the word of God right?

Ah, no. God told Israel in a hand full of instances that the destruction of a given people in a given battle must be complete. Their has never been a command to kill all babies.

Quote:He told me he thought that the 10 commandments are very important but they're in the OT.

He was mistaken.
In my romans study we find out that 'we' all have been freed from the Law. All of it, so much so we can literally bind ourselves to aspects of the law like the 10 commandments if we wish.

Quote:So I guess one of the commandments says not to kill but then god tells you all these reasons that you should kill people in the same OT.

Actually no. In the Hebrew the command is you shall not Murder. The difference between Murder and Killing is that Murder is the unsanctioned taking of Human life. Meaning to take a Human life outside of the parameters or direct command of God is wrong. While Killing with in the parameters God sets fourth is allowed. (NT sanctioned Killing: State execution, War waged by the state, any law provided by the state that allows for a sanctioned taking of life egelf defense.) Even so if we are caught outside of this command we have been given the grace to over come this sin. Meaning we will be forgiven of this sin.

Quote:I'm so confused I just had to stop the conversation because it was making my brain hurt. I like to understand others points of views but I can make any sense out of all this.

Pain is weakness leaving the body/brain push through, ask your other questions.

Quote:Maybe someone can explain this to me better. What is the difference between the OT and NT as far as what you should follow and what you shouldn't?  

I went into greater detail in my study of romans, and in more broad detail in my review of the study of romans

This is the sore brain version:
The OT Law Judges EVERYONE Guilty. the verdict is Death. The book of Romans says we are a dual natured being. One of the Body and of the Soul/Spirit. The Death the body happens at the end of this life. The death of the Soul/Spirit happens in Hell. Unless one is Judged righteous. We can not be judged righteous because we are all sin (willful choice not born sinful, so says the bible) Unless we accept Christ into our hearts. Then we exchange our unrighteousness for his righteousness. He dies the death we owe. Now because we continue in sin according to the book of Romans and their is nothing we can ever do to stop it, this body will die. However because we died in Christ we are no longer bound by the law. Because of what Paul says in the book of Romans (The law only applies to us until death, then we become free from the law.)

Now 'we' (Christians) are free from the Law. You non-christian will be judged by the law. As Christ said nothing will disappear from the law till heaven and earth are gone.
Meaning the Law's NT purpose (Per Paul) is to show non Christians they are in sin and need redemption.

Quote:-Sara0229

The OP raises a decent point, not about which of these two piles of shit should be followed but why is the OT even appended to the NT in the first place.  The earliest, more or less "complete" bible we have, the Codex Vaticanus from the mid 4th century includes the Septuagint.  We are told by xtian sources that Marcion in the first xtian canon c 140 AD had nothing good to say about yhwh or any of his bullshit.  Thus, in the two centuries between Marcion and the Codex Vaticanus somebody decided to tack on all the jew-shit.  I have seen speculation that the creators of proto-orthodox jesusism wanted to give their new cult a sense of antiquity with the idea that "new religions" were not to be taken seriously.  Can't recall where I read that, though.

I really don't know. It's like "when God was bad".

Maybe they keep it around as a reminder of what he might go back to if we don't keep in line.

Imagine if Joseph Smith had been able to include the Book of Mormon as part of the Bible and the Uthman committee added the Koran to it. It would really be a pile.

(December 28, 2015 at 12:05 am)Sara0229 Wrote:

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I find reading about religions fascinating, not sure why cause I think they do more harm than good, but anyway I was reading passages from the OT that say you can't do all this stuff and talked about killing babies, stoning children, killing nonbelievers.....

So I was talking to a Lutheran about all of this and as the conversation went on I just became more and more confused. So if the NT trumps the OT then why is the OT in the bible? I mean why have all that in there if you don't have to abide by it? You just ignore it because you know killing babies is wrong? But God told you to do it and it's the word of God right? He told me he thought that the 10 commandments are very important but they're in the OT. So I guess one of the commandments says not to kill but then god tells you all these reasons that you should kill people in the same OT.

I'm so confused I just had to stop the conversation because it was making my brain hurt. I like to understand others points of views but I can make any sense out of all this.

Maybe someone can explain this to me better. What is the difference between the OT and NT as far as what you should follow and what you shouldn't?  



-Sara0229

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Drich has given you some good answers read them carefully. I'll add this, the OT shows us the need for a savior through the nation of Israel. They couldn't keep the commandments and they had God's help, keep in mind the rest of the world didn't know or accept the God of creation (there were a few exceptions).
The OT was a promise to send that savior, not just to the Israelites but too the whole world. Trying to lump the NT and OT into one interpretation isn't going to work especially for nonbelievers. If you have questions you can PM me and I will try and answer them I do not have the time I use to so I really don't want to get into arguments with the other atheist, if you do ask questions please make them short so we do not get into a long drawn out process, I'm willing to help if you're willing to ask. Give me time to respond I'm quite busy these days.

GC

(December 28, 2015 at 2:40 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: Imagine if Joseph Smith had been able to include the Book of Mormon as part of the Bible and the Uthman committee added the Koran to it. It would really be a pile.

That would be awesome!

"God's greatest hits"

"Now that's what I call God"